ArcoBlood Mod Finished

[Endoperez]

BidDaddy, it seems you misread that. The question was about UNHOLY, not holy, magic.


My quess is that unholy spells don't affect demons.

I haven't tried that either, but in Dom:PPP there was no diffentiation between undead and demons. You can still see that in the "undead leadership" that is needed to lead demons. As Illwinter made the two different in most other aspects (exceptions only in Flambeau, Holy Pyre and similar that affect both undead and demons), I believe that they also changed the unholy spells.

[Scott Hebert]

Kristoffer O said:
Initially we didn't intend for good and evil, holy and unholy to be in the game. Evil is in the eye of the beholder.

I really wish I could agree with this statement. Unfortunately, I can't. Moral relativism has got to be the worst idea of the last 500 years.

Unholy is getting a rework in DOM3. Undead priests have 'unholy' powers of reanimation, but the unholy tag is removed. All priests are priests.

Could you remove the 'holy' tag as well, and simply call them 'priests'? 'Holy' implies good, as does 'Sacred'.

And for those who want to know why Blood magic per se sickens me, it is the fact that you are sacrificing another person's life for your own ends. As such, it is a supreme act of selfishness, which is evil.

No, I don't expect you to agree with me.

Anyway, for those that like the mod, I'm glad.

[The_Tauren13]

Scott Hebert said:
And for those who want to know why Blood magic per se sickens me, it is the fact that you are sacrificing another person's life for your own ends. As such, it is a supreme act of selfishness, which is evil.

Ah, human lives are overrated; over 100 people die each minute. Who knows, death may even be better than life...
Also, whats wrong with being selfish? I mean, if youre trying to become a God, you should be expected to be quite self-centered.
Im kind of surprised we dont regularly get a bunch of religious thralls in here telling us how we are all going to hell for playing this game...

People are the biggest renewable resource in the world. Too bad we cant use blood to like, fuel our cars.
Going farther off topic, I dont see why people hold dead bodies in such high regard. If someones dead, who cares what you do with their body? Burying it in an expensive casket is a waste. I mean, why not make Soylent Green?

Well, I guess Im pretty amoral.

[TheSelfishGene]

The_Tauren13 said:

Ah, human lives are overrated; over 100 people die each minute. Who knows, death may even be better than life...
.

Dude, like, your right! So, you hop on the alter first. K?

Yes i am troll bait .

[quantum_mechani]

Sacred and holy do not imply 'good' to me, merely that they are extremely devoted to thier religion.

hmm... now the only thing this thread is missing is norfleet...

[Grey]

As I sit underneath my bridge I wonder... "Why use their blood which is such a waste of the energy potential? Now those machines in that special effects movie which used people as living batteries - that is an idea! And I bet with the right drugs or even brain surgery you don't even have worry about them dreaming or even waking up."...

All summoned regenerative/non-supply-eating creatures aside I would like to share an observation or two. First, Moral Relativism as a coined term maybe new but the concept goes way back (i.e. Rome's conquering of neighbor nations was good in their viewpoint, but mostly likely not seen as good by anyone else outside the Roman environment).

Second, is anyone else worried that the Nation of Gems might be getting upset about all the sacrifice of their subjects just to cast the spells? I mean the High Diamond must be mustering his gem armies in anticipation to rid the Dominions of this evil happening to his subjects. (Mod pending). It's just a game right?

[Scott Hebert]

While my personal views are, I gather, quite unpopular here in this forum, I do try to keep them separate from games I play. I thought this would be obvious on my view of blood magic vis-a-vis the fact that I just published (for lack of a better term) a mod that converts a nation in Dominions into using Blood Magic.

BTW, Gene, I like your response. If you're referring to something you sacrifice things on, it's 'altar'.

For those that find that the words 'sacred' and 'holy' do not necessarily connote goodness, I pose the question as to why you can only desecrate and profane what is holy, if holy is not good.

Checking dictionary.com:

Unholy - Wicked; immoral

Wicked is evil, right? Unholy is also the defining antonym of Holy, right? Therefore, if Unholy is evil, Holy is good, right?

*shrugs* But then I guess the counter-argument is that every religion declares itself holy and its opponents unholy/wicked/evil. My issue is that this is not true, with Satanists being the most obvious example.

Ah well. As I said, my personal views I'm sure are quite unpopular here.

[Grey]

Actually Scott no matter how unpopular it may seem to you, your personal 'real' world view is valid. In fact it is most likely closer to my 'real' world view since I find real sacrifice and real attempts at magic to be evil.

Luckily (+3 scale) for me, I enjoy the game for what it is - a game which is not real nor serious. Unluckily (-3 scale) for me it looks like my very first post came at the very wrong time, since I did not see Quantum's post until after I posted. I have lurked for a couple of month's now after having discovered this wonderful game so I know some of the reference to Norfleet - enough to know that I am not Norfleet but everyone else may be. Boy with a +3 and a -3 I must have my turmoil setting too high.

With regards to the holy/unholy definition Merriam-Webster Online defines "Unholy" as "1. showing disregard for what is holy. Wicked" and defines "Holy" as several things but for the game the third defn. is most appropriate "devoted entirely to the diety or the work of the diety". I personally do not prefer to play blood nations since I find it distasteful (no pun intended), but I do not mind it in the game since it is just a game. Plus I get the opportunity to beat down those pretenders who use it, which is why I thank you for your mod.

Finally to not be a hypocrite... please hook me up to the generator my capacitance is reaching max.

[Scott Hebert]

*chuckles* Nah. It's cool. If anyone here is a hypocrite, it's me.

As for the validity of my worldview, I thank you for that, but it's not important whether it is or not. And, if by that, you would say that any personal worldview is valid, I would disagree with that strongly.

[atul]

I think it's a real pity there isn't any other species capable of communicating abstract thoughts we humans would know of. As it is, we're incapable of understanding relationships between intelligent species. Take this discussion about evilness of blood races, for example.

Abysians sacrifice human females. Since they are a species of lava-people with only a superficial resemblance to humans (they're even made of something other than meat), it's a bit like we using bunnies for cosmetic study.

Jotuns sacrifice human females. Well, we use chimps and other closely related species for our own good, and how many actively think it's evil?

Vanheim gave up blood long ago, but the memory remains. Sure, situational ethics, but nothing like classical Evil...

(and so on)

And as to Holy, I think the personal belief and devotion angle is the most believeable one, especially since no pretender can achieve holy status (IIRC that was fixed around patch 2.06 or so). And defining something by saying what they are not (UNholy) is a bit vague, especially since hardly anyone outside bad fantasy thinks of him/herself as evil/unholy or anything...