Dominions II Bug Thread - Page 4

PvK · #31 October 30th, 2003, 09:42 PM

I would add that your archers probably shouldn't have fired wrecklessly enough to wipe out your ace units like that.

Having played a bit of Doms II now, I think that my #1 Doms I gripe (and almost my only Doms I gripe) still needs some work: friendly fire. I think it may have improved in Doms II, but I think it would greatly improve the game to add some logic so that missile units prefer targets that have no chance of accidentally hitting friendly units, and that only fire near friendlies in extreme circumstances (no safe target, enemy is not fleeing, enemy is dangerous, enemy can be easily hurt by missile attack, nearby friendly units are low value and/or unlikely to be hurt by missile attack).

I have seen several battles already where most or all of one side's losses are due to friendly fire when there were safe targets available, or when the target enemy was routing anyway.

PvK

Chris Byler · #32 October 30th, 2003, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by PvK:
I would add that your archers probably shouldn't have fired wrecklessly enough to wipe out your ace units like that.

Having played a bit of Doms II now, I think that my #1 Doms I gripe (and almost my only Doms I gripe) still needs some work: friendly fire. I think it may have improved in Doms II, but I think it would greatly improve the game to add some logic so that missile units prefer targets that have no chance of accidentally hitting friendly units, and that only fire near friendlies in extreme circumstances (no safe target, enemy is not fleeing, enemy is dangerous, enemy can be easily hurt by missile attack, nearby friendly units are low value and/or unlikely to be hurt by missile attack).

I have seen several battles already where most or all of one side's losses are due to friendly fire when there were safe targets available, or when the target enemy was routing anyway.

PvK

Yeah, I agree. Too many times, a company of archers will fire at one enemy surrounded by 20 allies - and of course 90% of their fire will hit my guys. Now, if they're berserkers, that's not all bad, but usually, it makes archers dangerous to deploy at all, because their fire discipline is so terrible.

It's worse now that you can't order them to "fire mages" or "fire commanders" - they are both less useful and more dangerous. Please implement a "fire safe" order, that will only fire at enemies that are sufficiently far from any friendly (and possibly move closer if there aren't any good targets - the closer they get, the less scatter and therefore the more targets can be considered "safe".)

Saber Cherry · #33 October 30th, 2003, 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by johan osterman:
Perhaps they went berserk, commanders and spellcasters in particular should not behave in the way you descibe, unless under order to do so. Did your pretender have nature 4+, and the abysians any missile troops?

No, the Abyssians just had Abyssians and humanbreds, and my pretender has fire and earth. As far as I can tell, my priests sat their and cast spells while appropriate, but once they could not find any useful spells to cast, they rushed in to fight. I know I did not have them set on "attack", and I also know they were not berserked (I've seen DomII berserked units).

In a different battle, I had a scout in the back with (hold)5x-(stay behind troops) orders. After holding for 5 rounds, he rushed out and attacked also. He survived, though.

[ October 30, 2003, 22:00: Message edited by: Saber Cherry ]

licker · #34 October 31st, 2003, 12:03 AM

A fire safe order, as Chris suggests would be great. Some units should also get a designation as non combatants I think, that way they'd never attempt to engage an enemy unless berzerked.

Saber Cherry · #35 October 31st, 2003, 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by PvK:
I have seen several battles already where most or all of one side's losses are due to friendly fire when there were safe targets available, or when the target enemy was routing anyway.

Agreed. I would like a "Fire at non-routing enemies only" command. This would allow fire to focus on enemies that are still a threat, and protect your units from the catastrophic end-battle friendly fire losses, where your quick, light troops get rained on as they pursue the fleeing enemies. I've wounded my gods with crossbows in this situation.

[ October 30, 2003, 22:03: Message edited by: Saber Cherry ]

apoger · #36 October 31st, 2003, 12:24 AM

I just ran a battle where a dragon casting personal regeneration never regained health.

Also the dragon routed and did not have a place to go. There was no mention of the dragons death anywhere, although it did perish.

IW, if you want I can send in the turn file.

HJ · #37 October 31st, 2003, 01:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Saber Cherry:
As far as I can tell, my priests sat their and cast spells while appropriate, but once they could not find any useful spells to cast, they rushed in to fight.

I've had a somewhat similar case happen to me earlier today. My pretender casts breath of winter as his first nonscripted spell. And then, one of the spellcasters behind him who was too fatigued to cast anymore (98fat) starts running back and forth, and eventually runs into the cold clowd and dies. I lost three magic items and a HoF hero because of that. Why couldn't he just stay put and wait for the fatigue to recover, instead of running around and wasting even more of that same fatigue?

PvK · #38 October 31st, 2003, 01:31 AM

Maybe he was trying to stay warm? Or dodge arrows? Or confuse the enemy?

That's another tac AI suggestion from Doms I though - it might be good to let the AI avoid walking into existing damage zones, such as posion gas clouds etc.

For example, the AI will create formations of Hydras with human troops, who tend to die from the Hydras' poison gas clouds, even by rushing into them when they wouldn't have to.

I suppose that might be partly considered part of the abstract nature of the tactical combat resolution. At least, though, it would be a suggestion for how the AI might be improved - the AI players could have their formations avoid placing area affect units near other friendlies whom they can hurt.

Although, for all I know this has been improved in Doms II - so far I've been lucky enough not to run into such things in Doms II.

PvK

HJ · #39 October 31st, 2003, 01:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by PvK:
Maybe he was trying to stay warm? Or dodge arrows? Or confuse the enemy?

It was a cold cloud actually (breath of winter)

.... Maybe he wanted to get a better view of the routing enemy army (it was the Last turn of the combat), and the manticore was blocking it?

Well, now I laugh but it wasn't very funny in the game....

[ October 30, 2003, 23:36: Message edited by: HJ ]

PvK · #40 October 31st, 2003, 01:53 AM

Heh, yeah, I was thinking maybe he got cold from the nearby spell, and decided to pace back and forth to get warmer, and (like all AI units) didn't see the zone of death.

But ya, it can be sad when one's heroes die, and it frequently happens in unexpected ways. It's part of the joy and agony of Dominions. In fact, I spend a lot of my time paying attention to my heroes and trying (often in vain) to have them see action yet keep them alive.

PvK