OT:US don't qualify for EU membership, don't spank children, WW2 history.

[Ruatha]

Originally posted by Slynky:

I was spanked when I was very bad growing up. I think I deserved it. I didn't leave my parents with much choice. So, am I "screwed up" because of it? I doubt it.

I don't belive you become screwed up from being spanked, but how did it feel?
Why would you subject your kids to that feeling?

Has juvenile violence really increased? Propably not very much; (US links)
http://home.earthlink.net/~mmales/chap-2.htm

http://accuracy.org/press_releases/PR051099.htm

[ July 25, 2003, 22:26: Message edited by: Ruatha ]

[Ruatha]

Now that I have stirred up a discussion I can go to bed, see ya all

[Phoenix-D]

"In 1992 Accidental deaths in US was 13.3 in 100 000 and in sweden 5."

Population of Sweden: 8 million
Population of the US: 287 million.

Thanks for bringing that little difference up too. It makes you so much more persuasive.

[Thermodyne]

Originally posted by tesco samoa:
Thermo....

France and Britain delivered an ultimatum to Germany on the 1st of Sept to withdraw forces from Poland

On the 3rd they declared war when this ultimatum was not met.

This is quite well known.

So, who started the war in the west? Had France and England let Poland go would Germany have turned west in 39 or 40? I think they would have kept going east. War would have come, but France and England would have had two years to prepare.

[Thermodyne]

In 1992 Accidental deaths in US was 13.3 in 100 000 and in Sweden 5.

I think we need to remove death by motor vehicle from both sides of the equation. No place in the world has the miles traveled by car percapita as the US. And no one has the number of basically dangerous recreational vehicles that we do. Often the figure for death by firearm is quoted as an indication of the state of our society. But its just a big number to people that are not used to thinking that large. In 1999, more people died from car accidents on one weekend than were killed by firearms for the whole year. And if we gave the same percentage of overpowered motor vehicles to the young people of Sweden, the death rate would soar. Add to that the legal protection that our constitution gives to drunk drivers and substance abUsers, and the number would rise again.

In Sweden, if I got drunk and killed someone in a car accident, what would happen to me as a first offense? Would I get my license back? Would I go to jail? What if I didn’t hurt anyone just wrecked my car? What would the penalty for that be?

In America we do put people to death for high crimes and attacks of an exceptionally violent nature. But on the other side of the coin, we let a lot of people off very lightly. And the vast majority of convicts on death row are repeat offenders.

[Pax]

Originally posted by Ruatha:
Hitting your child means you've failed as an adult, you propably feel powerless and can't find any other way, it can't possibly be for the best of the child, saying that is really sick!

While spanking or other forms of "get physical" discipline should always be a Last resort, trust me when I tell you that there ae some children who will never respond to anythign less.

And not all spanking even causes DISCOMFORT; a quick swat on a well-padded-by-a-diaper bottom doesn't do much except guarantee you have that particular unruly smallfry's attention, but good.

Generally, nonphysical forms of discipline and behavior-reinforcement are far and above the preferable approaches; one good one (that grows MORE effective as the child hits adolescence, up to about 16 or 17) is the age-old, tried-and-true "go sit/stand in that corner for X minutes" ... believe me, it's highly effective. To the very young, 5 minutes is a literal eternity. To young adolescents, sitting in the corner for ONE minute is humiliatingly embarrassing. Either way, the point is made: do something inappropriate, suffer something unpleasant as a consequence.

But again ... some children and youths simply will not respond to anything less than some physical discomfort -- including spankings. So, as a Last resort is, IMO, acceptible, so long as "Last resort" means "all else has been tried, and has completely failed."

And at any rate, it should never be done while the disciplining adult is angry.

And with that said: yes, I would put a fellow adult over my knee and tan their backside, given three things: (a) the authority and jurisdiction, (b) sufficient cause, and (c) the exhaustion of alternate remedies or solutions.

And those three things are the case regardless of age: authority and sufficient cause combined with having exhausted alternate means of resolving the issue.

[Ruatha]

Originally posted by Phoenix-D:
"In 1992 Accidental deaths in US was 13.3 in 100 000 and in sweden 5."

Population of Sweden: 8 million
Population of the US: 287 million.

Thanks for bringing that little difference up too. It makes you so much more persuasive.

13.3 in 100 000 and 5 in 100 000 means that the total population plays no part whatsoever.
Thanks for understanding that


[ July 25, 2003, 23:39: Message edited by: Ruatha ]

[Thermodyne]

U.S. budget deficit put at $455 billion. This from an article published on the 16th. Income is down and expected to top out at 1.8 trillion. But, if the upturn continues, this is expected to rise to 2.6 trillion after the 4th quarter returns. It’s bad, but it has been worse in the past. You can bet that higher taxes will return, and cuts to services will be around the bend. It cost money to play war games for real.

A note on state budgets, many of the short falls were caused by the over-reliance on investment income. And many of the states hardest hit had spent this year’s money covering Last years bills, as they had done the prior three years. Paying Last years bills the day the new physical year starts does this. Sitting governors are often reluctant to force cuts; this is left until after the election. But by then the cycle is out of control. When you take this type of accounting and toss in a market that plummets, you have a disaster. There are a few states that chose to maintain their bond Ratings at the expense of the budget. My state is one of them. When the reserve fund value dropped off the chart, it was all in stocks and securities, general funds were added to maintain the value. This caused a tremendous hit on the budget. As did the return to physical accounting. We had a one party system here; the other party held only a few seats in the legislature. And as always happens, there was no one to say NO! So we spent away a fortune in tobacco money just because it was there. Problem is that now that it’s gone no one can seem to remember what we got for it.

[Ruatha]

Originally posted by Thermodyne:

quote:

---

In 1992 Accidental deaths in US was 13.3 in 100 000 and in Sweden 5.

I think we need to remove death by motor vehicle from both sides of the equation. No place in the world has the miles traveled by car percapita as the US. And no one has the number of basically dangerous recreational vehicles that we do. Often the figure for death by firearm is quoted as an indication of the state of our society. But its just a big number to people that are not used to thinking that large. In 1999, more people died from car accidents on one weekend than were killed by firearms for the whole year. And if we gave the same percentage of overpowered motor vehicles to the young people of Sweden, the death rate would soar. Add to that the legal protection that our constitution gives to drunk drivers and substance abUsers, and the number would rise again.

In Sweden, if I got drunk and killed someone in a car accident, what would happen to me as a first offense? Would I get my license back? Would I go to jail? What if I didn’t hurt anyone just wrecked my car? What would the penalty for that be?

In America we do put people to death for high crimes and attacks of an exceptionally violent nature. But on the other side of the coin, we let a lot of people off very lightly. And the vast majority of convicts on death row are repeat offenders.

---

Killing someone while driving drunk will put you in prison for a couple of years, not sure how many, I'd guess 0.5-6 years depending on circumstances (prior history etc)

When taking the license become more expansive a couple of years ago the traffic deaths decreased alot, now I'd guess it costs approx 1-200 dollars if you take it through a driving school, you can do it cheaper by having a parent or friend as driving instructor, but those who do seldom pass on the first attempt.

Now I'm really off to bed so if Phoenix-D still don't understand statistics I'll have to explain it better tomorrow

[ July 25, 2003, 23:40: Message edited by: Ruatha ]

[DeadZone]

Well, I can say this, most Brits hate the fact that we are apart of the EU because of how they have decided to screw up our justice system, need I say more?