When AI scrap ships ?

[oleg]

Just an idea: AFAIK, AI can not retrofit or scrap ships with cargo. What if I rename construction baces to curriers and add one fighter bay ??
Will AI still use it for construction ? Hmmm..

[Q]

Here is the savegame:
1054815517.zip

It is a simultaneous game with the standard SE IV Gold Version 1.84. No passwords needed. Just login as the Phong (who are an AI empire) and control the log and empire status: You will find that a ship has been scrapped although there are more resources generated (AI high bonus included) than needed and the resource storages are full. And an identical ship type as the one scrapped is under construction at the homeplanet!!

[Mephisto]

Uh, sorry Q, that is possible. However I think it is not a game breaking bug because the scrap minister will only kick in if the ship has no other orders. Usually important AI ships always have an order.

[oleg]

In normal SE, yes. But in some mods, like Proportions, maintaining healthy infrastructure on orbit (about 10 space yards) is absolutely vital for AI well being. I made changes to my AIs, so they have space yards at top of every state in construction_vehicles file. It does not solve the problem complitely, but at least AI build space yards at the same time it destroys them. :
1054841329.zip

[JLS]

I did not realize why the questions on the AI Campaign Thread.

Sorry, Oleg…

I am a latecomer to this thread, so I will try to catch up.

Oleg, may I ask you to try THREE things with your Proportions AI.

1: Change the settings file line to [Retrofit Max Percent Difference in Cost ~~~~~ := 70 instead of 50% just for the test.

2: Please use Proportions Abbidon or a file similar to its AI Vehicle Construction File.
~~~
EDIT:
It may be best to have the top line a Weapon Platform or troop.

All AI states with the SAME Planet Per:=0 and Must have at least:= 5<>(whatever) for this test.
Entry 2 Type ~~~~~~~~~~:= Base Space Yard
Entry 2 Planet Per Item ~~~:= 0
Entry 2 Must Have At Least~:= 5

Followed by any Ship, Defense Base, units etc type.

*That is if 5 BSY's is affordable plus what else your AI is needing to accomplish (resource expenditure wise) Otherwise use a MHAL # that will be Common.

***This is important, it gives you a conformed Bench Mark thru out your test.

Or just clump most or all in just one or a few AI States. You will still need the bench mark for the test.
~~~

3: Start the test with a NEW game only influenced by your new Settings file.

You need too be sure that the all current BSY Proportion Designs and next BASE YARD upgrade for that AI is obtainable and legal for the AI as well, before running the test.

=========

With above now true, I expect something to clear up for you...

I am assuming that this is just happening to your BSY's or is it all your AI ships and bases?

I have never seen this happen in an alarming scale with Proportions, in the Past. Pre se4 v1.84. And then it was just some early Def. Base Design.

PLEASE POST, on your derection or progress, Oleg.

[ June 05, 2003, 22:34: Message edited by: JLS ]

[JLS]

BUMP

Oleg,
Are you adding PLATE armor to your Proportion MODS AI Designs that you are having proplems with?

[ June 05, 2003, 21:46: Message edited by: JLS ]

[Q]

Originally posted by Mephisto:
I cannot confirm the problem. I have set up a game with the EA, one empire under human control, the other computer with high bonus.
In the next step I activated the ministers for the human empire except for ship movement (so no colonies were set up) and de-activated ministers in the computer empire likewise.
After some turns the human empire hit the maintenance limit with 8 ships, using up some of the stored resources.
The computer empire had build 15 ships in this time. It had crossed the maintenance limit by 5k minerals (because the bonus was now gone after human control). It still had full storages, a sign that it had no lack of minerals at all in the past turns.
My conclusion is that bonus are working quite well.

Question: did the human empire start to scrap ships in your test? If yes, try to switch this human empire to complete AI control and the former (not scrapping) AI empire to human control.
My test involved bases that were scrapped by the AI while in the same turn he completed the construction of an identical base at the same location as the scrapped one! So the construction is not impeded and the bonus are added to the storage correctely. That's not the bug. The bug is according to the observation we made, that the decision of the AI to scrap or not to scrap does not take the bonus into consideration.

[oleg]

All my AIs have 90% maintanence. May be I should try 100% next

I made changes in construction files and posted files here (two Posts down). I think AI will work better now.

[JLS]

I am happy it cleared up for you, Oleg


Hmmm, I hope Qs non-Proportions, Base se4 Stock test, clears up, and now with out the Bug that has been mentioned.

EDIT:

1: Change the settings file line to [Retrofit Max Percent Difference in Cost ~~~~~ := 70 instead of 50% just for the test.

Also, The Data/Settings.txt File with the above setting of 70% was for the test, and too High for regular play. The AI will scrap less obsolete designs and all the ships/bases that do get retrofitted by the AI (if late arriving to its Ship Yard) will cost an immediate fortune, and Possibly tie up Repair do to the majority of new comps added.

I have always had 60% for AIC Settings, and this is perfect for the AI.

[ June 06, 2003, 19:38: Message edited by: JLS ]

[JLS]

Originally posted by oleg:
All my AIs have 90% maintanence. May be I should try 100% next

I made changes in construction files and posted files here (two Posts down). I think AI will work better now.

Oleg,

I down loaded ALL the files from the Link you posted and the LAST AI change is all dated 6-1-03
Days ago. Before you posted this resolution?

[ June 06, 2003, 16:56: Message edited by: JLS ]