Increasing turn speed

[Ruatha]

I've been running an Turn league on NGC3 for 3.5 turns now. There will be no repercussions for negative points.
It's just a list with no direct implications.
So far this is the result:
------------------------------------------

Current standing in the "Turn league" 2403.4:
First three players to submit +1 pts, Last but one -1 pts and Last player to upload -2 pts.

Player.................Points
Slick 1
Warlord Ragnarok 1
Bjork 1
Teal 1
Roanon 1
Tnarg 1
Perrin 1
Narrew 1
Unkown Enemy 1
Kachoo 1
Ruatha 0
Thermodyne 0
Capt RR 0
Cory 0
Cyrien 0
Albator 0
Spunky Jones 0
Captain Greybeard 0
Tbontob -1
SWizzardS -6

[ June 09, 2003, 11:59: Message edited by: Ruatha ]

[Ragnarok]

I just wanted to post that I enjoy the idea of the turn submition league you put together. It adds something else to the game to keep track of and makes it more enjoyable.

[Fyron]

Ruatha, the issue with timezones is that when the majority of players are in the same timezone (as happens a lot), they will always be the first to submit, and the other players will usually end up being Last. If only one player is the odd one out, he might be able to average to 0. But since several players will get positive point values each turn, the odd one out will eventually have to be kicked. If there are more than one players in the opposing time zone(s), then it gets worse, as the second to Last player could often never have the chance to submit first and cancel out the negatives, and so would end up getting kicked. Several of the games I have been in have caused me to be one of the Last to submit each turn simply because the turn processes while I am asleep and most all of the other players are awake when it processes.

[Katchoo]

Probably the best thing to do would be to list the top 3 fastest players, and the players who have missed a turn without any explanation. Everyone else can live in amonimity.

As Fyron pointed out, differing timezones can be a problem. Another problem can be those of us who like sleeping in until noon, thus missing out on those early morning new turn files in our mailbox

Truthfully, the only people who should be getting negative points are those who miss their turns without explanation. Regardless of intention, putting negatives next to the names of people who upload Last but well within the deadline creates an unfair image of those individuals.

I'm sure this has already been said to death in this thread, but i'm too slovenly to remember what's already been said, let alone read all the prior Posts again. Viva la lazy!

[geoschmo]

There is really only one way to make turns faster on a consistant basis. Play games with fewer number of players. There is an inverse relationship between the number of players and the length of turn time. You can't really get around it.

If you like games with more players play a game with 4 humans and a bunch of TDM races. Or give the AI bonus, or both.

The all human 20 players/24 hours turns game I am running has gone over 90 turns now and possibly a half dozen of those turns have run with all turns in. There is always one or another player missing a turn. I don't even think about it unless someoen misses several turns in a row.

It's really not fair to rate players on who is faster or slower getting the turns in. Aside from the programming complexity, the reason we never did anything with a turn speed rating on PBW is because the more we thought about it the less fair it seemed to be.

I agree players should normally not be penalized for anything other then missing a turn without notice. If you wanted to go farther then that you could strongly encourage the Last player each turn to do their next turn right away once the turn processes.

So to sum up:

Play with fewer human players.
Do not tolerate players missing turns without notice.
Strongly encourage players playing Last to play both turns.

Geoschmo

[Suicide Junkie]

How about something more like:
+1 for submitting first
+1 for submitting in the first half of the turn limit (IE: on day 1 of a 48-hour-turns game, or within 12 hours of a 24-hour-turns game)
-3 for submitting after the deadline (applicable to ALPU and No-Auto games)
-10 for unexplained absence. (per turn missed)

Where the modifiers fully stack.

[Ruatha]

About timezones.
In a 20 player game it isn't timezones that slows the turns up.
The majority of the players in the game are from US and canade, some from europe.
most submit within 24 hours, some with 48 hours and 1-3 within 72 hours. There are no 72 hour timezone differencess!

There is no penalty involved in this turn submision league except some shame perhaps.
When 18 players wait for 48~24 hours for two players turn after turn I want them to get some signal of it, this is that signal.
In NGC2 we had nearly no turns without sybmissions, most turns run within 24 hours, this was so even before we got the suspected cheating period that might explain some fast cluster submitters...

I've played in only 6 PBW games, some of them I've been alone in europe, most US players (I know you have timezone differences aswell).
I rarely end up submitting Last, and if I do I make sure that I run the turn directly and submit first the next turn. I do not submit Last one turn and then wait until there is one hour before the next deadline to submit my next turn, when I easily can become the first to submit the turn as I'm the only one who knows with a certainty that the next turn will be sent out within 5 minutes!

I can't change the rules mid-game, but I must say that I think waiting 70 hours each turn before submitting, being Last each turn, is not to my liking.

[Jack Simth]

Originally posted by Ruatha:
There are no timezone differences of 72 hours!

Good point.

[ June 09, 2003, 20:23: Message edited by: Jack Simth ]

[Ruatha]

I must also say (not patting myself on the back ) that I'm in no way any extreme player.
I have a real life, house, two kids, work (nights and weekends aswell, sometimes 21-30 hours shifts (never join less than 48hour games)).
I play between 5 and 6 am in the morning before the kids get up and I go to work.

Still I manage to get my turns in usually in the interval 12-24 hours after the new turn.

The one thing I don't get (repeating myself)is why one isn't submitting first but Last in the new turn when one was submitting Last in the previous turn?? (Yes, I've asked. Haven't got any reply yet, but I 'm certain I will get one)

Edit 030612:
Now vacations are starting and absentees gets -2 per turn missed...

Current standing in the "Turn league Turn 41":
First three players to submit +1 pts, Last but one -1 pts and Last player to upload -2 pts.

Player.................Points

Warlord Ragnarok 2
Tnarg 2
Narrew 2
Slick 1
Bjork 1
Roanon 1
Perrin 1
Unkown Enemy 1
Kachoo 1
Ruatha 0
Thermodyne 0
Capt RR 0
Cory 0
Cyrien 0
Albator 0
Spunky Jones 0
Captain Greybeard 0
Teal -1
Tbontob -2
SWizzardS -6

[ June 12, 2003, 11:06: Message edited by: Ruatha ]

[Fyron]

Some people do not have the time to play 2 turns in a row (esp. once games get larger). They might be in a lot of games and have limited playing time. Does it seem right to kick them (or tarnish their reputation) for this if they play their turns within the alotted deadline? Not to me.

And about timezones, even just a 3 hour difference (such as between US pacific and atlantic coasts) causes a huge discrepency and can still throw the system off tremendously. That, and differing schedules. People that play early in the morning as opposed to those that play in the afternoon, for example. There is already a large window of error there. Shift the right people to later timezones, and it gets much much worse.

[ June 09, 2003, 23:20: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]