Machaka and a W9 bless - Page 4

llamabeast · #1 September 4th, 2008, 08:33 AM

Hrmm, I just tested that, but the spider the Black Sorceror turned into wasn't sacred.

I had a go with a prophetized Black Sorceror though. He was pretty cool.

thejeff · #2 September 4th, 2008, 08:49 AM

Wow. I'm sure they were. I wonder how old that memory is. Maybe all the way back in Dom2.

Machaka's one of my favorite nations for flavor, but I haven't played with them much. I just can't make them work. I'd love to see other age versions...

licker · #3 September 4th, 2008, 01:30 PM

Well drain2 is only -1RP with CBM (which I am using...), but the point is that if you out expand everyone you make up with quantity over quality...

That's the theory anyway

archaeolept · #4 September 4th, 2008, 01:36 PM

yes ... theory. It won't work, as you will have spent so many points for something that doesn't hold up that well. sad, but true.

But you should try an MP game - they don't take all that much time, if you just restrict yourself to one game.

licker · #5 September 4th, 2008, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by archaeolept

yes ... theory. It won't work, as you will have spent so many points for something that doesn't hold up that well. sad, but true.

But you should try an MP game - they don't take all that much time, if you just restrict yourself to one game.

Ehh?

I was talking only about the research deficit, not the overall points expenditure.

And I'm still missing something on the scales Machaka should take, since I don't see the need for Productivity or Luck (if you take Order3).

Are you plowing those points into an awake SC or something?

archaeolept · #6 September 4th, 2008, 02:10 PM

awake SC, w/ a bless? that's unpossible.

perhaps you should put forth a build you are looking at.

going drain 2 is pretty harsh, but it can be done. not w/ machaka, I don't think, as it will desperately need research to cover for it's dying spiders.

Not to say that you absolutely can't use them. But i think any such build would be borderline at best.

licker · #7 September 4th, 2008, 02:47 PM

I didn't say SC with bless, I said SC instead of bless.

I'm asking where you put your extra points from not taking the bless, since I don't see that production or luck is particularly useful to Machaka under any build. And O3H3 are already neutral.

archaeolept · #8 September 4th, 2008, 02:54 PM

scales, and probably a sleeping potential sc god that covers some of machakas missing paths. air, for sure, probably astral. I generally don't take awake SC's, though that would be an option.

licker · #9 September 5th, 2008, 09:48 AM

Well to try and shore up some of the weaknesses being discussed here I tried an awake f4w9s6 glyph. Scales were 03H3S1G0M2D2 and I had a dominion of 5. This is with CBM as well.

That pretender gets you 20rp per turn from the start, which helps to offset at least some of the research problems.

Of course the map I tested on stuck me in the middle of a bunch of mountains, so I wasn't able to use the strat move2 very effectively. Anyway, with the improved research I was able to get to Iron Will pretty easilly, which with the bless, gave my spiders an MR of 17 (I think, don't have the numbers in front of me at this computer).

So is that a reasonable MR to counter the kind of mage spam you would expect around turn 20? I think I had it a bit earlier, but it also takes some time to put the right mages in with the armies. And I would imagine that its also possible for Machaka to buy/trade for some early items which should also help them since I find it difficult to research const and spare many forgers (well as the pretender is the only way you have Astral, and he's being used to help keep up the research).

JimMorrison · #10 September 5th, 2008, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by licker

Well to try and shore up some of the weaknesses being discussed here I tried an awake f4w9s6 glyph. Scales were 03H3S1G0M2D2 and I had a dominion of 5. This is with CBM as well.

There's your problem. CBM makes EACH step of Magic scale +/-1 Research. So with CBM, under Drain 2, you are -2 RP/mage. I think if you are only using your pretender to shore up early research, you may well have better results putting him to sleep for a year, and fixing that Drain. The first 12 turns will be a little slower research, but by the time he gets out, he can catch you up by your turn 20 deadline, and then your research will only be better, even as he is more free to do other things for you.

Since need for research doesn't tend to relax at all before turn 50, I look at higher Magic scale as GIVING me more mages. As the number you need in Labs to maintain a desired research rate is lowered, letting you use more in your armies. Otherwise you buy them, you hit shift-R, and you tell them to get comfortable.