Vampire Queens and Sneaking Armies

[Peter Ebbesen]

Originally posted by Graeme Dice:

quote:

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Originally posted by Norfleet:
If ANYTHING has Soul Vortex and Phoenix Pyre, it has essentially unlimited resurrections against normal riffraff. You hardly need a VQ for that.

190 points for the VQ, the next cheapest is the PoD, which is hardly as effective.

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The cheapest would be the Michtlan Smoking Mirror at 102 points I think.... But perhaps he is a bit too feeble.

Of other interesting combinations, a Phoenix Pyring Soul Vortexing Lord of the Gates would cost 140 points, a Nataraja 156 points, a Golden Naga 160 points, a Red Dragon 170 points, heck, even making Odin the All-Father able to use that combination can be done for 195 points.

There are lots and lots of good pretender chassis that can use Soul Vortex and Phoenix Pyre if that is what you want, and quite a few of them cheaper than the Vampire Queen.

[AhhhFresh]

Well, why not take away the etherealness like Tawqus suggested... I don't think I'm familiar with any literature that says that Vamps are innately ethereal like ghosts and specters and what not...

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by Peter Ebbesen:
There are lots and lots of good pretender chassis that can use Soul Vortex and Phoenix Pyre if that is what you want, and quite a few of them cheaper than the Vampire Queen.

Sure, but every time they get hit they risk permanent afflictions. If they are being hit hard enough to die then they will likely gain them quite quickly.

[Peter Ebbesen]

Originally posted by Zen:

The only other Immortal Pretenders are the Bog Mummy and Phoenix. Only 1 of the 2 have decent slots and that one has subpar stats (as when you are looking at Immortality for a SC, you have to look at "out of the box" stats, slots, and abilities, which you can tell which is clearly superior).

And the Lich, the Master Lich, and the Lich Queen, but yes, immortality is a very rare ability and ought to be priced accordingly.

I would be happy to see the high and mighty VQ get her just desserts and be bumped to 125 or preferably 150 points due to the sheer mass of useful abilities she has been granted, including many of the most precious ones found in the game.


Ps: Am I the only one who prefers using the Lich Queen as Ermor rather than a Vampire Queen? It just seems so much more fitting - and you can start with dominion 9 or 10 to go with your insane levels of magic

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by Peter Ebbesen:
Ps: Am I the only one who prefers using the Lich Queen as Ermor rather than a Vampire Queen? It just seems so much more fitting - and you can start with dominion 9 or 10 to go with your insane levels of magic

I tend to prefer the Lich Queen when playing living Ermor, as it's nice for your communion slaves to be reborn when the masters drain them, and she's not much more expensive than the PoD for a level 9 blessing. Of course, I also really like having a pretender with earth and water magic for death nations, as jade armor is extremely useful for bane lords.

[Peter Ebbesen]

Originally posted by Graeme Dice:

quote:

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Originally posted by Peter Ebbesen:
There are lots and lots of good pretender chassis that can use Soul Vortex and Phoenix Pyre if that is what you want, and quite a few of them cheaper than the Vampire Queen.

Sure, but every time they get hit they risk permanent afflictions. If they are being hit hard enough to die then they will likely gain them quite quickly.

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Ok, I thought the idea was to have a pretender (preferably with a ring of regeneration ) that could survive going out with a bang - not a whimper, not one that would make a habit of it.

If you want a self-abusing habitually dying pretender, then the Ancient Kraken at 136 points (and an amulet of the fish) is your squid!

(Ok, I just like using the Ancient Kraken as Atlantis or R'lyeh - a very powerful SC chassis despite having only 3 misc. slots, one of which is almost guaranteed to go to an amulet of the fish)

[ April 14, 2004, 09:47: Message edited by: Peter Ebbesen ]

Originally posted by Peter Ebbesen:
And the Lich, the Master Lich, and the Lich Queen, but yes, immortality is a very rare ability and ought to be priced accordingly.

Oh yeah I forget about them, because the Liches are feeble (appropriately so) and the Lich Queen is Ermor Only; and I feel appropriately priced for her singular nation choice. To be quite honest, whenever I'm thinking about picking a Lich, I end up picking a PoD.

Ps: Am I the only one who prefers using the Lich Queen as Ermor rather than a Vampire Queen? It just seems so much more fitting - and you can start with dominion 9 or 10 to go with your insane levels of magic

I usually play with the Lich Queen with Ermor for both that fact and because VQ's are notoriously 'expected'. Also I don't like 'wasting' her magic in Blood (unless I'm playing BE).

[ April 14, 2004, 03:03: Message edited by: Zen ]

[Truper]

Originally posted by Peter Ebbesen:


There are lots and lots of good pretender chassis that can use Soul Vortex and Phoenix Pyre if that is what you want, and quite a few of them cheaper than the Vampire Queen.

Sure. But which of them are also innately etherial, flying, regenerating, cold immune, poison immune, life stealing and immortal, as well as spawning high-quality free troops? Not to mention encumberance 0, and... and... and...

And by the way, has anybody else considered the absurdity of flying in a full suit of black steel armor?

[Norfleet]

Originally posted by Truper:
Sure. But which of them are also innately etherial, flying, regenerating, cold immune, poison immune, life stealing and immortal, as well as spawning high-quality free troops? Not to mention encumberance 0, and... and... and...

The Vampires that a VQ spawns do not appear in a controllable manner or in very large quantities, even with strong dominion. If anything, they are not nearly as reliably spawned as the PoD's longdead rabble, which, if he parks for a few turns, can grow to be a sizeable mass. If you're using Soul Vortex + Phoenix Pyre, lifestealing isn't even an issue.

And by the way, has anybody else considered the absurdity of flying in a full suit of black steel armor?

Not really. It's not as if Vampires fly by any apparent natural means, as they're clearly not aerodynamic and have no ability to generate lift. Dom2 wouldn't be the only game with flying, armored vampires. I don't even use Black Steel, the spellcasting encumberance imposed would cause her to pass out during prebattle buffing.

[Norfleet]

Originally posted by AhhhFresh:
Well, why not take away the etherealness like Tawqus suggested... I don't think I'm familiar with any literature that says that Vamps are innately ethereal like ghosts and specters and what not...

I'm not entirely sure what the Etherealness of Vampires is supposed to represent, although personally, I'd have thought a Mistform would be more appropriate: Vampires are reputed for their ability to assume gaseous form at will. Not sure where Etherealness fits into this. Then again, would this really be an improvement? Mistform is in some ways better, and other ways worse, than pure etherealness....