MP Noobs vs. Vets, Game Over, Noobs are Victorious! Hail Noobs! - Page 4

Slobby · #31 January 22nd, 2009, 08:57 PM

Interesting idea, coming from playing kohan (rts) and my experience there going noob vs vet I think the size of this game isn't quite right. In kohan at the top of my game I could do a 3v1 assuming the 3 were completely clueless, but that is coming from an rts (think on the fly) as opposed to a tbs (time to think your turns through). 2v1 against players that had some idea of what they were doing sometimes wasn't even close. Also there is a unit cap in kohan of 20 companies while in dominions it's open ended (it doesn't take alot of skill to just recruit massive amounts of chaff and swarm and in a game like this numbers mean alot in the early game).

Another thing to consider is that the vet team is in all likely hood going to have to rush to even the playing field. This doesn't necessarily promote a good learning experience as it only shows that one aspect of the game.

I would suggest scaling the size back to 5noobs vs 3vets, on a randomly generated wrap around map with no water provinces, set starting spots, and a no attack/rush rule in effect for the first 14-20 turns. This way every one has time to set up, assuming the noobs get 15 prov each and the vets get 20 prov each and that the vets potentially will be surrounded it should make for a much more interesting and fun game for both the vets and the noobs.

Septimius Severus · #32 January 23rd, 2009, 02:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tifone

Can I innocently ask why the choice of LA if I might?

The LA emphasis on military might vs magic (coupled with their numerical edge) I thought might give the noobs a bit of a boost as they are often unfamiliar with the magic system. Also, wanted to try another age other than the MA game I've already played.

Trumanator · #33 January 23rd, 2009, 02:06 AM

That actually makes a lot of sense. I wouldn't underestimate the edge vets might have on placement and the like though

Septimius Severus · #34 January 23rd, 2009, 02:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slobby

Interesting idea, coming from playing kohan (rts) and my experience there going noob vs vet I think the size of this game isn't quite right. In kohan at the top of my game I could do a 3v1 assuming the 3 were completely clueless, but that is coming from an rts (think on the fly) as opposed to a tbs (time to think your turns through). 2v1 against players that had some idea of what they were doing sometimes wasn't even close.

Seems 2:1 is definately more balanced early on, I don't want the vets scared away or anything. The vets will need to work together just like the noobs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slobby

I would suggest scaling the size back to 5noobs vs 3vets, on a randomly generated wrap around map with no water provinces, set starting spots, and a no attack/rush rule in effect for the first 14-20 turns. This way every one has time to set up, assuming the noobs get 15 prov each and the vets get 20 prov each and that the vets potentially will be surrounded it should make for a much more interesting and fun game for both the vets and the noobs..

Good ideas, though I worry about a randomly generated map, nightmare scenario where 1 noob ends up surrounded by vets, or even vice versa. Cradle seems to be a fairly balanced map (in terms of expansion, access, defense,etc.) though I'm still looking to see if I can find something more suited to team play.

If everyone would like a no attack/rush rule that is fine, though it is probably not important on a map with evenly placed starting locations.

Before starting, the vet team will have the right to review and reject any member of the noob team (check main post) on account of non-noobness. I want it to be as fair as possible for the vets.

Trumanator · #35 January 23rd, 2009, 02:53 AM

the point of set starts is to avoid someone getting surrounded. Also, another problem with cradle is are the numerous chokepoints, it might be easy for the vets to fortify and weather the n00bs' assault.

Septimius Severus · #36 January 23rd, 2009, 03:07 PM

Yep, though chokepoints can work either way.

Voting will begin soon (check first post) once we get a few more vets to commit/signup. We can then proceed to nation selection.

Ironhawk · #37 January 23rd, 2009, 05:29 PM

Speaking as a vet, rushing is certainly an option but its not actually a good one. Because you can only rush one nation at a time and if you are facing 2-1 or 3-1 odds then by the time you get to the enemy capital, you will already have lost your own.

What is more likely to happen is that the noobs will rush the vets. Because in the early game, until lots of magic and summons come into play, combat is fairly straightforward and gameplay experience will not give you too much of an edge. Its only when there are lots of spells researched and thugs and whatnot summoned where vets will really outshine more inexperienced players.

rdonj · #38 January 23rd, 2009, 06:49 PM

I agree with Ironhawk. The noobs have the advantage early on due to numbers and cumulative income. The longer the game lasts, the better the vets chances of winning grow. So a map that provides strong defensive advantages and chokepoints will heavily favor the veteran team, and highly diminish the numerical advantage the noobs get. I think a map along the lines of orania with pre-set start locations is probably ideal for this setup, though certainly a random map could work also. Just as long as it is mostly open to prevent people from being boxed in and unable to fight the other team.

Septimius Severus · #39 January 24th, 2009, 03:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rdonj

I agree with Ironhawk. The noobs have the advantage early on due to numbers and cumulative income. The longer the game lasts, the better the vets chances of winning grow. So a map that provides strong defensive advantages and chokepoints will heavily favor the veteran team, and highly diminish the numerical advantage the noobs get. I think a map along the lines of orania with pre-set start locations is probably ideal for this setup, though certainly a random map could work also. Just as long as it is mostly open to prevent people from being boxed in and unable to fight the other team.

Yep, having a balanced map with a decent defense would be key, what do you think of any of the others I listed on the main post? Alexander, Symmetry, Cradle?

Trumanator · #40 January 24th, 2009, 03:18 AM

I think symmetry looks like a cool map, but in this case I would say its unsuitable. The design of the map seems to look like it would isolate some of the noobs on the same half as the vets, where they could get ganked before all the others could pile on.

Could you provide a link to Alexander?