Machaka and a W9 bless

[Rytek]

With anything but the best research nations or niche nations like ULM, going with drain 2 leaves you too far behind in the research department.

[licker]

Well drain2 is only -1RP with CBM (which I am using...), but the point is that if you out expand everyone you make up with quantity over quality...

That's the theory anyway

[archaeolept]

yes ... theory. It won't work, as you will have spent so many points for something that doesn't hold up that well. sad, but true.

But you should try an MP game - they don't take all that much time, if you just restrict yourself to one game.

[licker]

Originally Posted by archaeolept

yes ... theory. It won't work, as you will have spent so many points for something that doesn't hold up that well. sad, but true.

But you should try an MP game - they don't take all that much time, if you just restrict yourself to one game.

Ehh?

I was talking only about the research deficit, not the overall points expenditure.

And I'm still missing something on the scales Machaka should take, since I don't see the need for Productivity or Luck (if you take Order3).

Are you plowing those points into an awake SC or something?

[archaeolept]

awake SC, w/ a bless? that's unpossible.

perhaps you should put forth a build you are looking at.

going drain 2 is pretty harsh, but it can be done. not w/ machaka, I don't think, as it will desperately need research to cover for it's dying spiders.

Not to say that you absolutely can't use them. But i think any such build would be borderline at best.

[licker]

I didn't say SC with bless, I said SC instead of bless.

I'm asking where you put your extra points from not taking the bless, since I don't see that production or luck is particularly useful to Machaka under any build. And O3H3 are already neutral.

[archaeolept]

scales, and probably a sleeping potential sc god that covers some of machakas missing paths. air, for sure, probably astral. I generally don't take awake SC's, though that would be an option.

[licker]

Well to try and shore up some of the weaknesses being discussed here I tried an awake f4w9s6 glyph. Scales were 03H3S1G0M2D2 and I had a dominion of 5. This is with CBM as well.

That pretender gets you 20rp per turn from the start, which helps to offset at least some of the research problems.

Of course the map I tested on stuck me in the middle of a bunch of mountains, so I wasn't able to use the strat move2 very effectively. Anyway, with the improved research I was able to get to Iron Will pretty easilly, which with the bless, gave my spiders an MR of 17 (I think, don't have the numbers in front of me at this computer).

So is that a reasonable MR to counter the kind of mage spam you would expect around turn 20? I think I had it a bit earlier, but it also takes some time to put the right mages in with the armies. And I would imagine that its also possible for Machaka to buy/trade for some early items which should also help them since I find it difficult to research const and spare many forgers (well as the pretender is the only way you have Astral, and he's being used to help keep up the research).

[llamabeast]

MR 17 is pretty good, I think.

[archaeolept]

well, i'm impressd w/ your attempt at having an awake bless

Dom 5 is extremely marginal, though. your own scales won't cover your territory, and you'll be vulnerable to a dom push. I'd suggest making him asleep, bumping up dom to 7 and magic to 1, if you can squeeze the points.

and Iron will is very difficult to use - you really need an s3 caster putting up Antimagic. to use Iron will you'ld need one earth mage for each 3 spiders...

w/ the same scales, but Magic1 and dom7, you can try an asleep glyth S9F9... there's something to be said to having an astral king

and F9 will give them pretty well the same punching power against indies, and also against etherealized units.