Surrender Changes

[Baron Munchausen]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Barnacle Bill:
Yeh, but in real life people don't want to die, they don't want to see their friends & relatives die, they don't even want to see their houses get blown up. So, they only fight like that if they figure the other side is going to exterminate them anyway. People weigh the odds and if they figure they have a better chance of surviving reasonably intact by surrendering then by going down fighting, up goes the white flag. If their glorious leader sees it different, sometimes he gets fragged and sometimes he wakes up to find all the troops just left (like Richard Burton's Marc Anthony in "Cleopatra"). There are exceptions, of course, but that is the general trend.

---

But they might well surrender to someone ELSE who (in their judgement) would let them preserve their identity more completely than the current enemy trying to conquer them. I agree that this is a very interesting feature of MOO that really ought to be included in SE's AI behavior. Some sort of assessment of "compatibility" should be included in the AIs thinking process so it has a chance of surrendering to another race when you demand their surrender and they realize they cannot win. They also ought to make "counter offers" of subjugation or protectorate when the ratio of their strength to yours is less than a certain level. The cost of conquering even a smaller empire by force can be high, and if you've got other enemies on your border who are in a bad mood the AI has a decent chance to squeak by that it never seems to even consider.



[This message has been edited by Baron Munchausen (edited 23 January 2001).]

[Nyx]

quote:

---

But they might well surrender to someone ELSE who (in their judgement) would let them preserve their identity more completely than the current enemy trying to conquer them. I agree that this is a very interesting feature of MOO that really ought to be included in SE's AI behavior.

---

Surrendering to an ally should not be allowed. Or if it is, it should not work as instantly and as completely as it does in the game, and it should be called something else. Let's pretend that during the war with Russia Afghanistan tried to become the 51st American state. The Senate would have thought it was a joke if you mentioned it to them. During the Napoleonic wars, had Prussia or Spain tried to surrender to England instead of to France, both the British and the French would have just laughed, you don't surrender to an ally, it's just not done. If you do try such behabvior, it's not called "surrender" which is a term explicitly referring to losing a war.

------------------
Compete in the Space Empires IV World Championship at www.twingalaxies.com.

[Barnacle Bill]

What they would probably agree to is something in between "subjugation" and "surrender", as they are today.

Of course, I also think that "subjugation" should mean more than just paying 40% of their income to you. It should be like a one-way military alliance, in which you see all their systems and can use their refueling depots, but not vice versa.

This new state in between "subjugation" and "surrender" would be like subjugation except that you basically control both empires. They are now an "autonomous region" or some such in your empire. You get 1/2 their resources. They still have a separate resource, research & intel pools of their own, but they have to give you any new techs they discover. They won't give you planets, ships, units or resources (beyond the 50% tariff). You can give them things if you want. Their diplomatic stance to the rest of the galaxy matches yours. You control their research que, production ques, etc... Their ships & units still use their graphics, but you control them. They now move during your turn, under your direction.

[Nyx]

SMAC had that. If you beat someone enough, or got far enough ahead of an ally, they entered a special diplomatic relationship called "submissive" toward you. They still existed and still had their turn, but they agreed with you in all things (until they got back on their feet or someone else crushed you).

------------------
Compete in the Space Empires IV World Championship at www.twingalaxies.com.