*** Star Trek Mod Discussion ***

[Captain Kwok]

Fyron - Woops I knew I was leaving someone out...and don't worry more of your facilities will make it in. I decided to keep the basic research and intelligence centres as are but use racial ones for the bonuses...so a few of those ones would be in. Plus that list is far from complete.

I don't want to make the armor too small - most likely 5kT+.

[ May 31, 2002, 06:19: Message edited by: Captain Kwok ]

[Fyron]

Ok.

If the armor is 5 kt, then it loses the "ablative" feel to it. Maybe 2 or 3 kt? I mean, 5 kt is half of normal armor. Ablative is supposed to have small chunks peel off, not 50% of the stuff.

Edit: Oh yeah, making it 1 kt is good. It is supposed to have a higher Damage/Kiloton ratio than contemporary shields, so if it is 1 kt, it will take a long time to repair. Mostly a balancing issue.

[ May 31, 2002, 06:27: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

[Atrocities]

Is there anything I can do? Perhaps come up with a nice DesignNames for each race. Will that help? I want to help, so let me know.

[Suicide Junkie]

As you suggested - "Impulse Engines" would be 20kT and generate only combat movement. There would be 3 tech levels with each level generating a 1,2, or 3 bonus. Only One per ship allowed. However this might change. It a recent beta of SEIV, MM added "One per Ship" to "Ten per Ship" for comps. Maybe we can make impulse engines to 10kT with 1 bonus and 5 levels with a max of 3 or 4 per ship

There is no point in making the impulse drives two-per ship or three-per-ship.
Combat movement dosen't stack, at least not on multiple copies of the same component.

You might try making "Primary Impulse Engine" and "Secondary Impulse Engine" as components with different family numbers. If that dosen't stack, nothing will.

I was goint to make engines without supplies and requiring a reactor (aka warp core/anti-matter reactor) that stores supplies - then get rid of the supply storage altogether. There would be maybe 5 tech levels each holding a certain number of supplies (from 2500-10000?) before needing to be replenished.

Is this going to be a "supplies = power generated", or "supplies = fuel" system?

I still think we could give all of the bonus movement points to the main reactor, rather than to high-tech nacelle coils.

Now, if you're going with a supplies = fuel system, leave the reactor and all drives supply-less. Losing the reactor means you most of your speed, and some other miscellaneous abilities. Have antimatter storage pods store 5000 supplies or so worth of fuel.
Too bad my suggestion for "explodes when destroyed" ability wasn't implemented Would have been nice to use here.

If you're going with the supplies = power, the impulse drives should generate 100, the main reactor 1000, and auxiliary reactors 50 each (about 1/6th the space taken by an impulse drive).
Scale to fit, and tweak the systemtypes.txt to ensure an invisible star in every system.

PS: Thanks, Fyron, for arguaing all of my armor points for me

[ May 31, 2002, 14:56: Message edited by: Suicide Junkie. ]

[Captain Kwok]

SJ - Ok. That's right - I don't know what I was thinking about the combat bonus not stacking. That solves one problem.

If we give the bonus move points to the reactor than it will make it vulnerable to engine-destroying weapons too right? So maybe we'll do that. Also, I don't want the reactor to generate supplies - so that means you'll have to refuel every so often (aka replacing your dilithium crystal etc). Ramscoops will replace solar panels and generate only a small amount of supplies - so that the ship still has a net loss of supplies per turn.

How about making Anti-Matter Pods (good thinking!) for emergency supplies instead of supply storage?

I've had a little trouble understanding how the exploding panels work - perhaps you can provide me with a sample component so I can see it in action?

And another armor point - ablative armor is not five times stronger than shields...it's tought but not that tough. If we make it too strong than everyone will use it for protection (even if it does take effort to repair) instead of shields + armor and aside from that silly "Endgame" batman armor VOY episode - Federation ships just don't do that. It should be equal in strength to make shields.

How much armor would you put on a ship in kT? I usually have 20-80kT depending on the ship. Maybe make most armor 4-5kT in size? That means about 5-20 components per ship which is more than enough to get that wounded feeling.

In regards to the no-true carriers etc - what do you think? Make sense?

Atrocities - name files would be greatly appreciated!

[Captain Kwok]

Ok. I updated the site making some info changes regarding the propulsion model and updated the tech list with some more comps and added most of the general facilities. I also edited the previous engine model adding to it some of the new ideas.

There is another issue creeping up. Should some races have additional bonuses while others do not? For example, Klingons are not scientists - should they still get research modifiers? On the other hand they would probably get a couple of combat bonuses instead to balance it out. However, I'm sure some races might be at a general disadvantage such as the Cardassians or Ferengi since they are less advanced on Star Trek - do you think this is okay?

[ May 31, 2002, 19:32: Message edited by: Captain Kwok ]

[TerranC]

The Ferengi are supposedly about the same as the Federation in TNG; as their maurauders can give some damage to a Galaxy Class.

But the thing is, The Federation is advanced on one side (Scientific), while the Ferengi is on the other (Economy). Also, ships are really expensive so only big business are allowed to have them.

+5 to trade
+5 all resource aptitude
-10 to Maintenance

Cardassians have the ability to research faster than the Federation; but don't have the moolah to make up for it; hence the occupation and genocide and all that.

+5 Research
-10 to mining and radioactive aptitude

Klingons are also scientific; but have bloated military budgets and science doesn't seem honorable.

+5 Space Combat
-5 Maintenance Aptitude
-5 Repair Aptitude
-2 Research

Feddies are Scientific, versatile, all around good guys; Although their defensive maneuvers don't always work to their favor, and scheming ways are taboo. Newer class ships are not always built all the time, but Resourceful crews keep ships in top shape.

+5 Research
+5 Defense
-5 Space Combat
-5 Space Yard
-5 Intelligence
+5 Maintenance
+5 Repair

[ May 31, 2002, 20:58: Message edited by: TerranC ]

[Suicide Junkie]

For example, Klingons are not scientists - should they still get research modifiers? On the other hand they would probably get a couple of combat bonuses instead to balance it out.

That sounds like cultural choice.

If you want to strictly enforce it, by making a part of the "Klingon" racial tech area, then you'll have to make all research centers require the racial techs as well as the normal tech...
Then, a klingon analysing a fed research center would gain generic research tech. This would allow the klingons to go from "Klingon Research Center I" to "KRC II", say. (If research centers could be analysed; just replace research with energy weapons, or whatever tech)

If we give the bonus move points to the reactor than it will make it vulnerable to engine-destroying weapons too right?

It should. You could also try giving it a "standard movement" ability of zero if it dosen't count as an engine just by having bonus movement ability.
Be sure to increase the engine limit by 1 for the ship hulls!

Also, I don't want the reactor to generate supplies - so that means you'll have to refuel every so often (aka replacing your dilithium crystal etc). Ramscoops will replace solar panels and generate only a small amount of supplies - so that the ship still has a net loss of supplies per turn.

No, no. Those were two different cases.

You can have supplies = power generated. That means the main reactor, the impulse drive's fusion reactors, and any auxiliary reactors you wish to add will all generate as much supplies as they store. Fuel capacity would be ignored, and we could say that the maintenance costs include too-small-to-see civilian ships coming to refuel & restock the ship.

OR you can have supplies = fuel, as unmodded SE4 does.
None of the reactors produce any supplies, or store supplies, rather they just provide abilities. In this case, the antimatter pods would provide all of the supply storage for the entire ship.

You can't mix those two options.

I've had a little trouble understanding how the exploding panels work - perhaps you can provide me with a sample component so I can see it in action?

code:

---

Name                  := Midrange Armor Class 1A

Description           := An all-purpose protective plating.  Less overall strength that Light armor, 

but not as easily pierced by weapons fire.  (Absorbs a higher % of hits)

Pic Num               := 30

Tonnage Space Taken   := 3

Tonnage Structure     := 25

Cost Minerals         := 100

Cost Organics         := 0

Cost Radioactives     := 0

Vehicle Type          := All

Supply Amount Used    := 0

Restrictions          := None

General Group         := Armor

Family                := 5201

Roman Numeral         := 1

Custom Group          := 0

Number of Abilities   := 0

Weapon Type           := None

---

Since the "armor" has 25 hitpoints, and most of the internals are less than 25, this component will be hit more often than the internals.
That makes it act like armor.

However, it is "more often" is not "all the time", and some shots will hit internals before the armor.

The only thing that you need to change about the internal components in order for this to work properly is to make sure they all have fewer hitpoints thatn the armor.

This applies mostly to large or heavy mount weapons, but this is a trek mod, and we want the weapons to be disabled easily once the shields are down, so their hitpoints should be low anyways.

How much armor would you put on a ship in kT? I usually have 20-80kT depending on the ship. Maybe make most armor 4-5kT in size? That means about 5-20 components per ship which is more than enough to get that wounded feeling.

I like to devote about 40% of my ship to defenses. That's 200 KT for a cruiser.

If it were to be 50:50 shields to armor mass, 2KT ablative armors would be OK, for 50 components.

That would mean a ship that just barely survived the combat would take 6 months to repair at a Repair Bay III.

1 KT ablative armor would be better, but you seem intent on having those massive armor plates.

And another armor point - ablative armor is not five times stronger than shields...it's tought but not that tough.

I don't know where you got that idea. When me or Fyron say "strength comparable to shields" we mean hitpoints per KT size is comparable.

If a shield element is 10 KT, and 500 hitpoints, a 1KT ablative armor would be 60 hitpoints, say.
An armor-only ship would spend a year in spacedock for every month that a shield-only ship spent. And that's only if the ships were thrashed to within a few components of destruction.
A shielded ship can lose half its hitpoints every battle and never weaken, while the armor-ship would be dead after two battles.

In any event, the armor and shields are complimentary.
Having more shields will allow you to deflect a greater percentage of the incoming damage, and the armor allows your shields to maintain that deflection rate longer.

All armor = no damage reduction = ship is screwed.
All shields = minimal damage reduction = ship is screwed.
(generators are destroyed by the first partially penetrating volleys, and so the crystalline effect has almost no time to operate)

Edit: post was breaking the boundaries of the screen

[ May 31, 2002, 21:12: Message edited by: Suicide Junkie. ]

[Captain Kwok]

No. Since I am making production, research, intel bonuses part of the racial tech, some races like the Klingons would not have facilities like "Computer complex" to generate extra research points. They would be limited to just the regular research labs...

Or we can just reduce their natural ability in the culture file. Either way is fine.

SJ:

Supplies = Power (Usually from Anti-Matter)

In regards to reactors. The supplies represent the anti-matter in the reactor needed to power the reactor - in that sense it generates all the power the ship needs. Once that anti-matter is depleted than the ship is out of power and has no supplies. Anti-Matter Pods will hold extra anti-matter. Impulse engines could provide a little power from their reactors but not much. Ramscoops collect interstellar hydrogen which is just a minor power source.

Does that clear things up?

[ May 31, 2002, 21:59: Message edited by: Captain Kwok ]

[PDF]

As for modifiers : IMO some should be represented by special facilities, as Kwok proposed, but others, such as trade capacity of Ferengi (so increased trade revenues + maintenance reduction+ natural merchants !), or cunning of Cardassians, have to be racial modifiers...
Armor : in Trek world there's no real armor IIRC, so they should be rare... but I'm more of a TOS and SFB guy than a TNG one, so ...