Battlefield spell + retreating?

[K]

calmon said:
I think the discussion is senseless. The majority understand the difference, some people not.

I'd argue that a small and very vocal minority has dominated the discussion simply because the majority would rather make a few compromises and have lots of players in their games.

The polls that have been done are self-selecting, so only the people who are trying to make a point participate. I'd bet dollars to donuts that if you tracked SC use and beliefs on this issue, players would be sharply divided between people who focus on SCs and think it's "cheating", and those who use a wide range of tactics and consider it fair game.

[Tifone]

yeah, sorry but the difference is clear even to me, who surely I'm not here from an year and a half ^^

That's not the problem about one (cheap) tactic destroying an (expensive) one, or a lot of strategies would be unlegit.

This one just has this "feeling of unfairness" and "annoying" nature llamabeast talked about. A mage which comes, casts 2 spells, then goes away - and the spells continues to go on, undispellable, damaging every kind of army. No possibility of a lucky shot, and quite difficult ways to prevent.
I mean, I don't even know why am I arguing about this, it's so clear that all the current MP games decided this is unlegit. So why to defend this, you can't use it anyway, so wouldn't it be better if it gets nerfed down a bit in a way that even makes logic sense? This tactic would become possibly USABLE, why not, with a niche usefulness, adding one more to the many various strategies which make this game rich! Everybody happy as it is now, nobody can use it anyway

[Tichy]

Haven't the devs said that the MoD+retreat thing exploits a bug?

Shouldn't that end the argument?

Or has this become a discussion of literary theory?

[MaxWilson]

I count the spell "fair but annoying." I would personally prefer to play with the MoD mod, but I don't think it's unfair--merely jarring to suspension of disbelief.

-Max

[AdmiralZhao]

I don't accept that. Have you ever heard of Master Enslave, Undead Mastery, or Arcane Domination which allows exactly just what you are trying to tell me the devs didn't want? How about Shark Attack? Unravelling? Solar Brilliance? Ever see what two turns of Shimmering Fields or Shadow Blast can do when cast by an extremely powerful mage? Have you ever seen an SC cast a battlefield spell and just sit around until the opposing army is dead? How about an SC with a damaging aura who doesn't even cast any spells or make attacks, but just sits there while a thousand unit army kills itself on the aura?

Each of these tactics has many counters. The only counter that has been listed to MoD is to kill every enemy mage within one or two rounds of combat. (which I 'm pretty sure is the universal counter).

[K]

AdmiralZhao said:

Each of these tactics has many counters. The only counter that has been listed to MoD is to kill every enemy mage within one or two rounds of combat. (which I 'm pretty sure is the universal counter).

Or sending in flyers to cut off their Retreat so that you can kill them later in the battle, or even just engage the mage in melee so he won't cast the spell.

Or moving your armies with magic or flight so that they don't know where know where to send the one or two mages who can cast the spell.

Or using small, elite armies that will Retreat after a few losses combined with cutting behind provinces so that you don't lose much to an MoD attack and their retreating mage dies as he has no province to retreat to.

Or casting MoD first.

Or casting spells that are always successful like Petrify or Claws of Coctyus so that they can't cast the spell.

Of putting up Astral Corruption so that any Cloud Trapeze chicanery starts eating their mages.

...and that doesn't even count the dozens of way of killing the mage in those first two turns.

------------
Pffttt. At the end of the day anyone focusing on MoD ambushes will lose so many mages and expensive Air items that whatever war they are fighting is going to be going badly for them very soon.

[MaxWilson]

AdmiralZhao said:
Each of these tactics has many counters. The only counter that has been listed to MoD is to kill every enemy mage within one or two rounds of combat. (which I 'm pretty sure is the universal counter).

It's that "or two" which makes the difference. MoD gives you twice as long to kill the caster if you're the defender, and infinitely more time to kill the caster if you're the attacker. You *can't* do MoD exploit on the first turn of battle, unlike Rain of Stones or Master Enslave.

-Max

[Jazzepi]

This thread is epic lulz.

Can't we just link to the old one where like two people tried to defend to the death how everything, no matter what, if possible using the game interface should be allowed? I think it was Foodstamp and K.

Jazzepi,
IN UR GAME,
FLOODIN UR INVENTORY WIF SLAVE COLLARS

[Tifone]

Damn, I raelly don't understand why people didn't defend to the death the MoD+retreat tactic when it was made unlegit in all MP games, saying it can be countered so easily etc. etc. etc., but defend it NOW that, and at least it was my hope when I opened the thread, we could hopefully find a reasonable solution to make it less unbalanced and with its usefulness, by a mod or a rebalance in a future patch (I know devs patch what they want, obviously, but maybe driving enough attention around the problem ...)

[K]

Tifone said:
Damn, I raelly don't understand why people didn't defend to the death the MoD+retreat tactic when it was made unlegit in all MP games, saying it can be countered so easily etc. etc. etc., but defend it NOW that, and at least it was my hope when I opened the thread, we could hopefully find a reasonable solution to make it less unbalanced and with its usefulness, by a mod or a rebalance in a future patch (I know devs patch what they want, obviously, but maybe driving enough attention around the problem ...)

In the 37 games I checked on the first page of the Multiplayer forum, I count 7 who banned "battlefield spell + Retreat in less than 5 turns" or MoD or "tricky stuff." Now, I only read the first set-up post in each thread which is where you put any rules or mods you are using, but the idea that "it's in all MP games" is clearly not supported by the available evidence.

The silent majority speaks volumes.