What about interactive Tactical Combat ?

[AMF]

Hullu said:
I think a combat simulator would be a bad thing.
...People would use it in MP to optimize and calculate odds.

You know, I agree with that concern, and it worries me also. But the real reason I would like one is to understand the strengths of units, and how the various characteristics interact and make a difference. I mean, I can read about what precision 15, or strength 5, or spell X and spell Y mean, but I really don't have a good intuitive sense...maybe I'm just alone in this, but what I would use a simulator for is to educate myself about things like that.

I think what I'm really talking about is an Arena, where I can see how a few units of my choosing can stack up against a few other units of my choosing.

So, I guess that is my revised suggestion: how about a Arena Simulator, or a "Gladitorial Pit" where we can pit one or two of our chosen heroes against some other heroes. Maybe it could be made in-game, so that I can issue a challenge to other players or the AI empires and send 1-3 of my heroes against theirs - they would choose who they send...and the losers die. Just like the Arena event, but between two empires, and there is no concrete reward except the death of your enemies...

Just thinking out loud, I haven't thought through the ramifications. But it sounds fun.

[Endoperez]

Agrajag said:
Just like we can already give a unit special abilities using #copystats, but its still much better to have a new command for what we want.
Or just like you can make 5000$ if you work hard enough, but you'd still rather get the same amount of money and work less. Or do you like working for 1$ an hour?

I don't like working for 1$ an hour. Most people don't. That's why having a battle simulator would make it feasible to test multiple different strategies and scripts until you know exactly what you should do, in a way map scripting won't.

[Hullu]

A controlled arena or something would be a solution. One to which you can't put just any armies you like, but for example only three squads and only two commanders. Or something like that - anyway something that can not be used to optimize complex MP combats.

I find a free simulator a legitimate threat to the fun of MP. I'd almost be forced to use it myself, since I'd be scared my enemy are using it, and thus not using it would put me in a disadvantage.

[PhilD]

Hullu said:
A controlled arena or something would be a solution. One to which you can't put just any armies you like, but for example only three squads and only two commanders. Or something like that - anyway something that can not be used to optimize complex MP combats.

I find a free simulator a legitimate threat to the fun of MP. I'd almost be forced to use it myself, since I'd be scared my enemy are using it, and thus not using it would put me in a disadvantage.

I really cannot understand such concerns, since, as has been pointed out, the possibility of doing this does exist, in the form of map scripting and fake MP playing. Someone who really wanted to do it, could. They could write their own tools to make map scripting easier, and would not have to let you see them. Then you wouldn't know about them, but they'd be able to use their tools - but you wouldn't.

All a battle simulator would add, would be ease of use. Maybe.

[Hullu]

I really cannot understand such concerns, since, as has been pointed out, the possibility of doing this does exist, in the form of map scripting and fake MP playing. Someone who really wanted to do it, could. They could write their own tools to make map scripting easier, and would not have to let you see them. Then you wouldn't know about them, but they'd be able to use their tools - but you wouldn't.

All a battle simulator would add, would be ease of use. Maybe.

Well, the use of ease is key. Certainly you can try to brute force optimal tactics with pen and paper - but it's not easy enough If it's trivial with a few button presses to simulate a combat with an enemy to find the optimal combinations and orders - it might get nasty.

How easy is it now? I'd guess kinda hard to run 100 combats and see average results?

[Agrajag]

Endoperez said:
I don't like working for 1$ an hour. Most people don't. That's why having a battle simulator would make it feasible to test multiple different strategies and scripts until you know exactly what you should do, in a way map scripting won't.

But map scripting can do all that a battle simulator will do, it just takes a bit more setup.
The difference between an extra 10 minutes to optimize your battle isn't that big of an obstacle, however the benefit of a battle simulator can be huge.
The obvious advantage is making the game easier to learn for newbies, which is a department in which Dom3 is seriously lacking.
Another advantage, which is why I'd personally like a combat simulator is that it can be a huge help in modding by making sure your new nation is balanced. Sure, I could just set up different scenarios with the map editor, but if I want to compare my nation to all the rest in its age, its going to take longer to set up and observe, to the point where I'd rather just have an unbalanced nation and be done with it...

I'd also like to remind you we already had a fan-made combat simulator in dom2, and it didn't ruin MP for anyone.

[Hullu]

I'd also like to remind you we already had a fan-made combat simulator in dom2, and it didn't ruin MP for anyone.

Maybe you just didn't see it ruin it for anyone!

But I don't think we're talking about an extra ten minutes here. To get good advantage you need to run dozens of combats or more. If it's fast or even trivial with a simulator compared to hours when doing it manually then I wouldn't give the simulator to the public...

[Agrajag]

Hullu said:
But I don't think we're talking about an extra ten minutes here. To get good advantage you need to run dozens of combats or more. If it's fast or even trivial with a simulator compared to hours when doing it manually then I wouldn't give the simulator to the public...

But we are talking about an extra ten minutes here, you can try it for yourself even without map commands.
Just start a new sp game with you as two nations (and no AI), giving both of you (:P) half the provinces in the map (by way of starting provinces at game setup). Just Host a few turns (without actually doing anything) untill you have enough gold to buy everything you want, buy it. Host a few more turns because it probably will take more than one turn. Send everybody to the front. Save the game. Now try different settings and reload as you see fit.
Getting the right spells is also easy, just get a few mages and host until you research whatever you want to.
It might get a bit more tedious if you want hunderds of specific summons that take very hard paths to summon, but even that's not that hard.

And with map modding commands its even a whole lot easier, since you can just spawn almost anything you want to test.

[Hullu]

Well, still that's something I wouldn't be bothered to do. But with a simulator I might be

[Agrajag]

Hullu said:
Well, still that's something I wouldn't be bothered to do. But with a simulator I might be

Why not? You are at a disadvantage to someone who does bother