New SJ mod

[Fyron]

Originally posted by Suicide Junkie:
Fyron, you make it sound like reducing racial characteristics is impossible.
Heaven forbid that people would ever reduce an important characteristic or take a penalty trait in order to buy something else!

No I don't... not everyone enjoys min-maxing though. Additionally, the fewer points available, the more similar empires will be forced to be, as there is less room for "optional" picks. 2500 points down the drain just for your colony tech reduces the amount of options you have available.

[spoon]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Additionally, the fewer points available, the more similar empires will be forced to be, as there is less room for "optional" picks. 2500 points down the drain just for your colony tech reduces the amount of options you have available.

This is what I was sort of getting at. Make the first Colony Tech free by providing a "Take Me" Advanced Trait that cost -2500 points and does nothing for you. Then if someone wants to invest in another colonization tech, they can. Which is a really cool idea, btw. Following that idea, maybe you should make more research-based racial traits. Stellar Manipulators could start out with some Stellar Manip tech, etc etc.

[Suicide Junkie]

Other than Psychologically, how is picking characteristics to increase any different from picking traits to decrease (or not decrease)

If the game started with all the characteristics at 80%, and you had a pile of racial points which could just barely bring them all up to 100%, would it be any different?

[Fyron]

Decreasing a few traits is not at all the same as min-maxing.

[Suicide Junkie]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
No I don't... not everyone enjoys min-maxing though. Additionally, the fewer points available, the more similar empires will be forced to be, as there is less room for "optional" picks. 2500 points down the drain just for your colony tech reduces the amount of options you have available.
...
Decreasing a few traits is not at all the same as min-maxing.

There are just as many "options" for decreasing traits as increasing them, assuming you aren't a minmaxer.
What exactly is the problem?

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You mean we can actually have competitive races with all negative racial modifiers?
Burn the heretic!

[spoon]

Originally posted by Suicide Junkie:
There are just as many "options" for decreasing traits as increasing them, assuming you aren't a minmaxer.
What exactly is the problem?

Well, it's suicidal to play without either 120 aggressive or defensive or Religious, and 110 maint reduction. However, you do have a point that reducing traits is an interesting way to go. I wouldn't count on seeing anyone purchasing non-religious Racial Tech traits though. There just won't be any points left after you buy the required traits (colony type, aggressive/defensive, maint reduction, adv storage). You may have some differences in empires, but they won't be as significant, I think, as the differences you get when more points are available. (And when I say "differences" I mean competitive differences...)

I'm speaking as a devout minmaxer though, so weight my opinion accordingly...

[spoon]

Actually, ignore my Last post! If you drastically reduce the amount of points available, I think there will still be room for variation. Like you say, the variation will be from what you reduce rather than what you buy. If you create your mod with that in mind, I think you can do some neat things with it. I'd suggest using costs along the lines of the PvK balance mod for characteristics - maybe even max out aggressive/defensive/maint reduction earlier. Make advanced traits cheaper (change adv storage to +10% instead of +20%?) and make racial traits cheaper (750 points?). And come up with more Negative-cost advanced traits as well. Those are cool.

[Phoenix-D]

And if you reduce the number of points, you change the min/maxing equation. These empires would be competing against each other- if getting to 125 Aggressiveness takes 5000 points, it won't be done by anyone, and it won't be suicidal not to.

[Suicide Junkie]

I believe I mentioned somewhere in the thread that I've clamped down the to-hit modifiers.
I'm thinking a max of 10% due to racial setup, and steep prices all around.
Repair skill has the potential to go double or triple (max 999%) with a pretty low cost per point. Should come in handier with the repair drones and leaky everything, too.

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Ship training only goes up to 6% at level 3, proceeds at one percent per planet.
It also takes up two facility slots per planet, so its a bit more expensive.
If you want 2% per turn, you can always do the planet/moon thing, but then you need a small or better moon, and you use Four facility slots on the project.

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At the moment, I've axed all the racial Tech areas.

Religious did have some cool stuff, so there is still a "System Ecological Center" and a System Counter-intel facility with some name I forget already.
They're going to be standard techs though.

I will probably add some more in later. Possibly making the "solid" shield tech racial, and perhaps some leaky organic armor style stuff would be cool as a racial tech.
The minor racial techs from P&N will probably find room here. "Tiny race", "Advanced Automation", and "Think Big" are pretty universally useful.

[ January 05, 2004, 03:45: Message edited by: Suicide Junkie ]

[spoon]

Originally posted by Suicide Junkie:
I believe I mentioned somewhere in the thread that I've clamped down the to-hit modifiers.

Good!

Originally posted by Suicide Junkie:
It also takes up two facility slots per planet, so its a bit more expensive.

How do you do that?