Starvation victims abroad need help NOW! - Page 4

Nerfix · #31 July 4th, 2006, 11:26 AM

What is the number of shades/gems used ratio?

Gandalf Parker · #32 July 4th, 2006, 12:35 PM

3 shades for 5 gems.

Looking at an old game I remembered that I dont know how many times they have saved my mages from assassination. In most cases I cant think of anything else Id use that I wouldnt rather use front-line instead. And as I said, its often the only stealth or aquatic troop I have available early in the game that an draw fire so my mages or priests or leader with a a nasty weapon can do their work.

quantum_mechani · #33 July 5th, 2006, 04:59 AM

Quote:

Gandalf Parker said:
3 shades for 5 gems.

Looking at an old game I remembered that I dont know how many times they have saved my mages from assassination. In most cases I cant think of anything else Id use that I wouldnt rather use front-line instead. And as I said, its often the only stealth or aquatic troop I have available early in the game that an draw fire so my mages or priests or leader with a a nasty weapon can do their work.

Well, first of all, there are few assassins shade bodyguards can kill that national troops ones can't. Second, you can for the most part only use them for death or blood mages, which are pretty tough to assassinate in any case.

I don't see how it could possibly the only stealth or aquatic troop available often, reanimation and black servant are both level one research. And for both cases you still need a leader to use them for the purpose.

I'm not saying that shades can never kill anything, I'm not even saying that their abilities can't be useful, only that you can virtually always accomplish the same things better in other ways. Just because the hammer you paid 100$ for works for pounding in nails doesn't mean you weren't gypped compared to the 25$ hammer that does the same thing.

Cainehill · #34 July 5th, 2006, 12:01 PM

I mostly agree about the shades, but note that black servants aren't aquatic unless you put an item on them.

Gandalf Parker · #35 July 5th, 2006, 12:18 PM

I didnt say they killed anything. But having someone to draw fire for even one shot can mean survival for many leaders. If I have a stealth leader then I need stealth bodyguards. If I have an aquatic leader then I need aquatic bodyguards. And ethereal isnt bad to toss in also.
I havent verified the thing about strength-sap never working. I had thought it was a factor in my taking out strong units with leaders/bodyguards that wouldnt otherwise have prevailed. But I may have been wrong.

quantum_mechani · #36 July 6th, 2006, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Gandalf Parker said:
I didnt say they killed anything. But having someone to draw fire for even one shot can mean survival for many leaders. If I have a stealth leader then I need stealth bodyguards. If I have an aquatic leader then I need aquatic bodyguards. And ethereal isnt bad to toss in also.
I havent verified the thing about strength-sap never working. I had thought it was a factor in my taking out strong units with leaders/bodyguards that wouldnt otherwise have prevailed. But I may have been wrong.

I didn't say strength sap wasn't working, only that in most cases it was a negligible effect. Against normal troops having sometimes a couple points less damage from one of them is an extremely minor effect, large summons tend to have extra str and mr to spare, and SCs most of the time use damage shields rather that strength based damage anyway.

Stealth leaders that are sneaking every other turn can't be assassinated anyway, and if they aren't normal guards will do. As for aquatic, I've said it before, the longdead from reanimation can go underwater. It is certainly true in assassination attempt even one bodyguard is usually a lot better than none... but that's a niche other things fill much better than shades.

Gandalf Parker · #37 July 6th, 2006, 10:20 PM

like what?

quantum_mechani · #38 July 7th, 2006, 01:50 PM

Almost anything you have available, most universally, national troops work fine for the purpose. Also, the longdead from reanimation are at least a somewhat better option.

If you want really want to take this debate out of vagueness, you (or someone else) could attach a savegame where you are or are planning use shades.

Gandalf Parker · #39 July 7th, 2006, 03:04 PM

any national troop or longdead is better than an ethereal at drawing fire? They last longer?

Graeme Dice · #40 July 7th, 2006, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Gandalf Parker said:
any national troop or longdead is better than an ethereal at drawing fire? They last longer?

The question is not one of lasting longer, but more one of cost effectiveness. If we are dealing with assasinations, then the best defense is having so many commanders that the ones you care about aren't likely to get attacked.