Downloadable retail needed?

[calmon]

Endoperez said:

"Physical books are history.

The future is electronic books, end of story."

Things aren't as simple as they seem.

In moment noone will read e-books on pc or notebook. I'm just waiting for the right hardware. Sony will come out with some cool light e-book reader.

But back to topic

[Archonsod]

Electronic sales (whether download or shipping, as in Shrapnel's case) still make up less than 10% of the market as far as software retailing goes. Your not likely to see electronic distribution becoming the norm for a while yet (at least, not until the scaremongering about ID theft or Credit Card scams dies down).

Personally I prefer a CD (I even bought Gal Civ 2 on CD rather than online). Simple reason - if the company selling the game goes out of business, then I can still play the game without needing to worry about online activation or similar crap. I've seen far too many companies go under to put my faith in a developer, even EA....

[Agrajag]

Janster said:
Steam , works like a charm, exept a bit slow.

You must mean like the magical charms the lady across the street sold you. (ie doesn't)
I don't really think I have to mention what happened when HL2 came out...

Must I also mention the "Triton" game download service closing down and leaving thousands of Prey players unable to use their legally purchased product? (especially frustrating since people that bought a copy at the local store could still play)
(The link is in hebrew, so most of you shouldn't bother entering )

[Janster]

I saw an article about some better way of using e-books, but until the, reading books on computer screen?? don't be silly, and it has nothing to do with computer games

I'm putting things on the point a bit, but its really weird why when we have an internet that can easily handle gigabyte downloads, heck pirates been doing that for years, we can't get our games online.

As for steam problems, yepp, but they got really overloaded , I can understand that.
since then, its been running okay, my Space Empires V copy updated itself automatically even.

As for poor online sellers, yes they exist, there are a few probably, but thats an online sales problem in general.

Also there are some really unreasonable copy protection schemes going on, they only really hurt the consumer, not the pirates it seems.

Regards
Janster

[alexti]

Maltrease said:
What you wouldn’t get are people that ended up not liking the game enough to buy it later who might have dropped the money before they didn’t know they wouldn’t be in love with it (Sword of the Stars in my case).

I would argue that it is a good approach. If you buy some product and you realize you don't like it you can return it back to the retailer. Computer games somehow are exception from that (ok, usually you can return them back, but it's a bit of a hassle). So if the publisher/developer don't mind not getting money from people who tried the game and didn't like I support them in that decision.

[Tim Brooks]

Hi all.

It is always interesting to read threads like these. you know, we have a very different philospohy on our games than most. But we analyze what is happening, what people are saying and then we look at the reality. So far, we haven't seen that making a game downloadable adds to sales, at least not in the way you hope it would. Janster, don't you miss out on games if the only way you would buy them is by download? Someone here (wait, that was me!) said that if you had bought the game the day you started this thread, you would be playing it now. I guess to each his own and I don't fault you for your dl fanatacism, but Dominions 3 won't be available in a download version as there are no plans for that at all.

Happy Gaming!

[PDF]

Archonsod said:
...
Personally I prefer a CD (I even bought Gal Civ 2 on CD rather than online). Simple reason - if the company selling the game goes out of business, then I can still play the game without needing to worry about online activation or similar crap. I've seen far too many companies go under to put my faith in a developer, even EA....

You're citing "unfair", abusively restrictive d/l systems that don't allow you to make a CD yourself or limit your freedom to use the game in a way or another.
But if you buy and d/l from Matrix, Stardock or Ageod , you'll get a "normal", unrestricted install file that you can backup and don't have to worry for online activation or special upgrade system.
So it's not really an argument against game d/l...

[B0rsuk]

"Physical books are history.

The future is electronic books, end of story."

Things aren't as simple as they seem.

Just like someone above, I'm waiting for the right hardware. I'll still be reading paper books for a while, but only because of their present availablity.
As soon as I bought my music player (I refrain from using mp3 because I bought mine for oggs and Linux support) I said all cds goodbye. I only buy music cds when it's the only way to get the music I want, or I particularly respect the band. The device would fit in my mouth assuming I'd want to put it there. And it easily holds equivalent of 10 audio cds at a time. No one wants plastic, fragile and vulnerable to oxidization cds. No wonder recording industry is so desperate.
The funniest of all, sound quality is damn good, significantly better than on my PC's ac97.
---------------
Now back to topic.

Some people make it sound like putting Dominions3 on torrent and selling only patches* err I mean cdkeys would help piracy.
Don't delude yourself. It took my friend one day to find and download full version of Dominions3. Yes, I know this post will be edited soon, but it had to be said.
If Dominions3 was available for sale/download, people who pirate it could buy it instead.

I'm still waiting for my copy of Dominions3 to arrive. I paid for it on 17th, and Tuxgames is supposed to have it on 13th. All excitement is long gone. Blood and souls for round pieces of plastic !@ YeEeeaaH !
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Additional benefits of electronic selling:

- no need to manufacture cd's. (result: the game is cheaper)
- no need to store cd's. It costs money, too (result: the game is cheaper)
- you need electronic activation anyway (correct me if I'm wrong, but you couldn't patch Dominions2 offline).
-----------

Ultimately, it's convenience for seller versus convenience for customer. Download is convenient for customer. Shipping is convenient for seller, it seems. I suppose making customers happier doesn't pay off.

As for the manual, as someone already pointed out, hybrid solutions are possible (pdf early, just manual sent later).

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* a typo caused by being lost in thoughts, but EA Games actually makes you pay for patches. With money and sanity.

[Gandalf Parker]

B0rsuk said:

Some people make it sound like putting Dominions3 on torrent and selling only patches* err I mean cdkeys would help piracy.

I mentioned and cdkeys. But I didnt mention anything about it helping piracy. I just mentioned it because it would be an easier distribution to get into and IMHO it doesnt hurt things any more than any other download distribution does.

Don't delude yourself. It took my friend one day to find and download full version of Dominions3. Yes, I know this post will be edited soon, but it had to be said.
If Dominions3 was available for sale/download, people who pirate it could buy it instead.

Thats often said but doesnt tend to be true. There are people who will cross the line, and those that wont. Keeping it clear that piracy is theft tends to do the most good there.

---------
Additional benefits of electronic selling:

- no need to manufacture cd's. (result: the game is cheaper)
- no need to store cd's. It costs money, too (result: the game is cheaper)
- you need electronic activation anyway (correct me if I'm wrong, but you couldn't patch Dominions2 offline).
-----------

MAYBE you could say LESS need to manufacture and store but I doubt it. The numbers that have to be done in batches are preset by most companies so I think that would stay about the same.

Ultimately, it's convenience for seller versus convenience for customer. Download is convenient for customer. Shipping is convenient for seller, it seems. I suppose making customers happier doesn't pay off.

A crude way of putting it but true enough. There is quite abit of layout involved with digital downloads, and some major chance taking. So unless they can justify all of that with abit more than "it will make some customers happier" then it wouldnt make much sense for a company to do it. You might as well say they should give it away for free.

As for the manual, as someone already pointed out, hybrid solutions are possible (pdf early, just manual sent later).

------------
* a typo caused by being lost in thoughts, but EA Games actually makes you pay for patches. With money and sanity.

Patches and demos have gotten large. They have a measureable cost now to distribute them. Many companies are beginning to charge for access. Or for "faster service access without a waiting line" which amounts to basically the same thing.

[reverend]

you need electronic activation anyway (correct me if I'm wrong, but you couldn't patch Dominions2 offline).

IIRC, you could. Dom2 only connected to the server for a key-check when trying to play multiplayer.

If Dominions3 was available for sale/download, people who pirate it could buy it instead.

No. People who pirate it would continue to do so. Reasons I heard so far were always along the line of "too expensive", "only play it for a few days anyway" or "why buy it when you get it for free".

It might be that SOME people would buy it instead, those that can't get any retailer to ship it to them. But then I can already bet that you would need more than just credit card or paypal options for them to be able to pay, even if they want to.


Digital distribution can work, but as pointed out, it simply isn't as easy to do as you say.

My personal problem: With the rare and unexpected exception of UBIs German online shop, every single company expected me to pay with credit card. I don't have one. I don't know anybody who has one and would use it online. Add that to the fact that I'd really rather have a solid DVD case with the real CD than some self-burnt stuff. It just looks better on your CD shelf.


I'm no technophobe, I have my diploma in computer-science. But maybe because of that, I also see the problems companies have to face when they try to establish a solution for downloadable content. And my experiences so far (steam, ubi, even microsofts MSDNAA) tend to sway me in the direction of saying: Sometimes, the 'slow' way is better.

If anybody comes in and sees my LEGALLY self-burnt copy of XP, how do I convince him that it is, in fact, legally downloaded and burnt? I have nothing to it but my word and a textfile that includes my name and a license key. If it were delivered (could have been, if I had been willing to pay extra), I would have a CD with that holographic stuff and a 'more real' license.


So, unless I have no other choice (UBI and the Pe-2 addon for Pacific Fighters) I will ALWAYS have my software ordered and delivered the old way.