MA Pangaea-best starting troops?

[Beorne]

great, I've found a thread of expert Pangea players.

Someone experienced using of tune spells? Someone has been able to use the tunes in some way with some good effect?

Thanks

[Teraswaerto]

Nope. Found no use for the tunes.

*disclaimer* Not an expert Pangaea player! Never claimed that.

[Aleph]

Nobody taking death on their pretender for Lamias and the Carrion summons?

[Xietor]

Like i said earlier, mages in the castle are what i use to cast mother oak and gift of health. Many of them come with 1 death already, so if you can find 30 death gems you could set up one of your mages to summon.

I like using that weapon with my gorgon that create an aoe poison effect. That combined with petrification clears out most troops pretty fast. Especially early in the game when access to other magic gems is limited.

I may experiment with trample boots, but the gorgon can win most fights with petrification, and i fear trampling may exhaust her.

[Aleph]

Right. Sorry, was thinking of EA Pangea there.

People seem to be going either turmoil/luck/sloth or order/production. Any reason people aren't pushing a turmoil/luck/production/growth scenario for the best of both worlds - mass maenads backed up with incredibly heavy troops for MA?

I'm not at all an experienced Pangea player, even in SP, but it seems to me that MA Pangea has pretty decent magical versatility out of the box. Do you really need anything from your pretender but amazing scales?

[Xietor]

Only access to magic for MA Pangaea is earth, nature and death. And yes i like air. The gorgon requires air to be a proficient sc. low hps make her vulnerable to ranged attacks.

Also air gives her the silver hauberk, a light chest piece that gives a 80 air shield. Mistform and mirror image, along with regen ring, make her the best sc there is inside her own dominion.

[Shovah32]

For 56 points more than that E5N4A3 Gorgon you can get a E9N4 Gorgon who has great resistance to ranged weapons(18 prot unequipped) and can fight well unbuffed. She also makes a nasty bladewind caster and gives your centaurs a good survivability bless but she lacks the ability to broaden your magic access with air magic.

Just another option.

For a completely different pretender and bless an imprisoned, dom6 W9N9 lady of love can be fun as your sacreds get berserk +5, 21(17 without shield) defence not berserking, a respectable 16(12) defence berserking, 15 attack when berserking averaging 3 attacks per round(50% chance to act twice), regen, 14 prot berserking, 18 strength berserking and amazing speed(above 30, possibly in the low 40's) due to the W9 bless. You can also make some Hierophant thugs with that bless(personally i like gloves of the gladiator, horned helm and blacksteel full plate with that bless-the chance of a centaur with fairly minor equipment getting on average 9 strength 19(after berserk, before weapon strength is added) attacks and being able to reach rear troops/archers at the start of the battle is fun.

[Gandalf Parker]

Natural Disaster
pretender: Lord of the Wild
4 death, 4 nature, 4 blood
blesses are: Affliction chance +100%, Regeneration +5%, Strength +2
Dominion: 6
Turmoil 3 (order -3)
Sloth 3 (production -3)
Heat 1
Growth 0
Luck 3
Magic 3

=========================

Mulch Happens
pretender: Carrion Dragon/Carrion Lord
2 death, 3 nature, 2 blood
Dominion: 9
Turmoil 3 (order -3)
Sloth 3 (production -3)
Heat 1
Growth 3
Luck 1
Magic 1

2d3n are needed for Carrion spells, 2 blood added gives Dark Vines, Crossbreeding, Blood Rite

[Xietor]

I have tried the e94n gorgon. I like the air set up better. Her survival skills are markedly better with earth/air forged items. I do not like sending her naked into fights, even with 18 prot. Mistform is really nice buff as well.

And while the white centaur is great with e9n4 bless, they are capital only, can be a pain to bless without divine blessing, and cost 70 gold. Even blessed i am not sure they are better than 2 19 protection centaur cathaphracts, which you do not have to bless and can buy at any fort for 40 gold.

On pure survivorbility of the gorgon, there is no comparison. the 3 air goes a long way, and also adds 3 precision for her spells in the event she is actually casting. 99 percent of the time she scripts "summon earthpower, mistform, mirror image, elemental fortitude,
personal regeneration, attack closest enemy."

She wears silver hauberk chest, black steel helmet, snake bladder stick, eye shield, boots of the messenger, amulet of resilience, ring of regeneration.

Obviously later in the game she upgrades equipment.

Equipped in this manner, in a friendly dominion, she is pretty much unbeatable. Though, like all sc's she is vulnerable to smites, and certain instant kill spells.

[Sorlakind]

Xietor said:
I have to disagree on the war minotaur. They have 18 protection and a lot hps, so they do not go quietly. Also, you claim they get exhausted and sit there.

I usually use war minotaurs in packs of at least 10. So they cannot be picked on. Trampling causes enemy to flee in many cases, and my army is not made up mainly of war minotaurs, but hoplites and longbows. So the enemy has plenty to worry about besides the war minotaurs.

The minotaurs do not have a low attack because they have berserk 5, which allows for a good attack and it hurts a lot. They are particularly useful against elephants, as their size allows them to survive longer, they do not retreat, and a couple hits of low defense elephants will kill them. A group of war minotaurs is also my troop of choice to charge a castle. They trample through the logjam at the gate and do not retreat.

Centaur warriors are vulnerable to ranged troops with their low protection. While they certainly have their uses, you can see a pack of them vanish after a volley from ulm crossbowmen. So in most cases, i like the 19 armor centaurs for the same price. While they do not have berserk, they have high defense and good morale.

I am certainly not an expert on Pangaea, and there are many ways to play them. But I prefer the gorgon + armored troops path. Going the armored route, they are Ulm, but have, trampling units, flying scouts, better infantry because of more hps, defense, recuperation, morale, magic resistance.

There are surely many ways to play Pangaea, and if this strategy works out for you, great. I will just add the following points.

1. The Gorgon is a great SC pretenter, surely one of the best available. But just getting Air 1 on him is 80 points extra, the price of 2 positive scales.

2. You are playing Pangaea like it was Ulm. Sure, the hoplites and cataphracts have higher protection and that can be nice. But neither are stealthy and hoplites have strat move 1 (2 for the cataphracts) so, for higher protection, you lose stealth, berserkng (= they rout) and mobility and the design points for paying production scales. Is this worth it? Protection eventually loses importance when magic starts ruling the battlefield, stealth, berserking, mobility, etc. *never* go obsolete.

3. Centaur warrior have low prot, sure. Having >20 they can take the occasional arrow hit (and having recup will eventually heal afflictions) besides they go berserk (never rout and higher prot). And there are ways to boost their protection. And why would a volley of crossbowman be especially deadly? XBows half the protection, but CW have little protection to begin with!! so what's the worry? If anything, their low rate of fire is better for Pangaea. And remember, defence means nothing against missile fire, while having a shield does (and CW do have a shield).

4. Kithaironic lions instead of Vine ogres? For *6N* you get *1* lion instead of 2 vine ogres for 2N (with ivy crowns - better ratios with treelord staff and/or ivy kings). And what have kithaironic lions better than Vine Ogres? protection and higher mr. Everything else is more or less the same, and they can rout. And Vine Ogres are poison resistant so you can pull some deadly poison combos. Plus you need a pan to summon them, while for vine ogres a boosted nature mage or an ivy king does the job. Oh according to the manual a Kithaironic Lion is also a magic being.


As Aleph mentioned another very good pretender for Pangaea is, IMHO, the mother of monsters. Not only you get lamias galore from mid-game onwards, but since it is 20 extra points for extra magic path she can add a much needed magical versatility to Pangaea. Being naturally an ND mage, she can also cast the national summons, etc.