WinSPWW2 V12 ( 2019 ) Upgrade

[PantherCub]

Thanks for your efforts!

Now take a long break and a well earned rest!

[Lose Cannon]

Thank you both for all your hard work on these games and enjoy a well-earned rest now

[Kritkeen]

Thank you! My sincere gratitude to our precious developers, scenarios designers and everyone else who contributed over the years to keep this gem alive and updated.

[DRG]

It is right on the edge or yea or nay when it comes to Z fire being right on the line so no I do not think it's a "bug" and I don't think it's going to make a huge difference in gameplay. The changes we made will ensure that some things that used to work one way will not now and we knew Z fire users would be unhappy but it is what we had to do to stop the arty countdown cheat.

I have used Z fire a number of times in a scenario I've been playing and have not had anything I consider unusual or surprising happen and a screenshot is not nearly as useful as a save game but it would likely be impossible to run it with the old EXE then the new to compare results but YES allowable Z-fire has been tightened up a bit

[chris h]

Originally Posted by DRG

It is right on the edge or yea or nay when it comes to Z fire being right on the line so no I do not think it's a "bug" and I don't think it's going to make a huge difference in gameplay. The changes we made will ensure that some things that used to work one way will not now and we knew Z fire users would be unhappy but it is what we had to do to stop the arty countdown cheat.

I have used Z fire a number of times in a scenario I've been playing and have not had anything I consider unusual or surprising happen and a screenshot is not nearly as useful as a save game but it would likely be impossible to run it with the old EXE then the new to compare results but YES allowable Z-fire has been tightened up a bit

I agree some Z fire should not have been possible, any hex with a decent density value should prevent that and looking at the game it's approx 40% density that blocks fire. In this case one is 100% the other only 15% so some fire should be possible.

The ability to suppress hexes in this way before moving into LOS is now serverely restricted. With high density terrain some other method needs to be found i.e. more artillery. Calling up artillery to surpress a hex will result on a slower game due to response times requiring longer scenario times.

Also, just about every scenario I've every played would require more artillery units in order to compensate for the inability to hose down a partially hidden hex as before. All-in-all it will make a big difference to game play.

Note that I do agree that some z fire should not have been possible, but in the instance I've posted here it should be.

[Felix Nephthys]

Originally Posted by chris h

I agree some Z fire should not have been possible, any hex with a decent density value should prevent that and looking at the game it's approx 40% density that blocks fire. In this case one is 100% the other only 15% so some fire should be possible.

The ability to suppress hexes in this way before moving into LOS is now serverely restricted. With high density terrain some other method needs to be found i.e. more artillery. Calling up artillery to surpress a hex will result on a slower game due to response times requiring longer scenario times.

Also, just about every scenario I've every played would require more artillery units in order to compensate for the inability to hose down a partially hidden hex as before. All-in-all it will make a big difference to game play.

Note that I do agree that some z fire should not have been possible, but in the instance I've posted here it should be.

But isn't the type of situation you describe (a unit wanting to fire at another unit outside of LOS) the exact reason we have artillery, mortars, air support?

As for hex density, I don't think it works that way. I never knew about any percentage, just a rating. The way I know it is that anything over 30 density in a hex and you can't see past it to another hex beyond, and the density is cumulative.

[chris h]

Originally Posted by Felix Nephthys

But isn't the type of situation you describe (a unit wanting to fire at another unit outside of LOS) the exact reason we have artillery, mortars, air support?

As for hex density, I don't think it works that way. I never knew about any percentage, just a rating. The way I know it is that anything over 30 density in a hex and you can't see past it to another hex beyond, and the density is cumulative.

I've always looked at 30 density as 30%, a building should have 100 and block fire completely so once you get to 100 density over a number of hexes fire is blocked but that isn't the case now. In the example I posted one hex is 100% blocked due to the house the wheat field is 15%. You should be able to area/recon fire into the enemy hex. You can't because it can't see the hex.

Here's another. The MG should be able to area fire down the trail at the two units. Again it can't, it can fire at the hexes it can see. Just because you can actually see a location it does not mean you fire in the general direction. Bullets don't magically stop just because you can't actually see the location.

Yes, that's why you have art but you miss the point. Previously you could fire at a location, as I've just said, now to pin down a unit before closing to a location you could actually see it from no matter what that range is. Now you have to stop and work round to somewhere you can actually see the hex before you can fire at it without any suppressing fire. Alternatively you can call down artillery, actualy mortars as you'll be too close for big stuff. Whatever artilley it is, it takes somewhere in excess >1 turn, usually between 2/3 turns. This will slow the game down so some of the scenarios/campaigns that say move quickly or are severely limited in time will become impossible in the time frame allowed.

There is of cause the Banzai option.

One further thing I'm now experimenting with a campaign I'm playing using the new rules. It's hard due to all the observation I've mentioned above. Where my loss rate in men was moderate under the old it has increase considerably under the new
I've also tried the artillery method but the game slowed to crawl.

Everything else in the patch is really good but I'm not impressed by most of the new z key rules although I can live with the no F key use, just means more clicking.

I'm still using the new version but I'm likely to revert back very shortly.

[chris h]

For some reason the image wouldn't post. FOund it was too big had to zip it.

[anlubue]

Originally Posted by chris h

Also, just about every scenario I've every played would require more artillery units in order to compensate ...

I can understand, but I think the scenarios would then have to be adjusted, not the game.

Maybe there would also be the possibility to exclude these directly firing mortar units from the new rules?

[zovs66]

Z-Fire still works, you have to do it manually each time and only in hexes that are in your LOS (line of sight). Personally I think the new changes work out well, I had in the past PBEM games where the other fellow would Z-Fire out of LOS hexes and hit my units, repeatedly, causing massive suppression without any return fire. This can still happen but only if the Z-Fired hex is in your LOS, but a good counter is to save shots to fire back at those pesky Z-Firers.