Endgame Diversity Mod - v1.2 released

[rdonj]

I was just summing up the arguments for why people keep calling the Asynja too weak, personally I'm more in your camp myself I've been arguing with them since day 1 that asynja aren't nearly as bad as they think.

[WraithLord]

"...that can capture 3 provinces in 2 turns and not even be intercepted by anti SCs..."

Would you care to explain that bit?

[Executor]

WL, I would have thought that an experienced player such as yourself knew that little trick, but I guess the rabbits been in the hat long enough.

Simple, Asynja is stealthy which allows her to move undetected and sneak out without being caught right?
Now, something that people might know from remote province attack spells such as GR or Horrors is that a stealthy unit set to move will join in on the attack of the province he's moving from if that province is attacked during the magic phase.
So basically an Asynja that is hiding can be set to attack both the province she is in and the province she is moving to if you cast a simple enough spells such as arose hunger for example.

[WraithLord]

Nice trick. Didn't know that. I wonder if it's some sort of bug or maybe it's WAD???

To the main point though. I personally think that the good EDM summons are too cheap. Good as in Asynja, Shishis, Grendelkin etc. (with perhaps exception of Tree-ant, Ettin & Kraken which are probably spot on price wise).

Too cheap as in eclipsing regular summons. Not completely but they do marginalize a lot of the vanilla summons that were previously used more often and are now falling short in cost efficiency. I'm talking from experience of what I'm fielding and what my opponents field now and prior to EDM. I do not refer to tarts, EDM did a good job in giving alternatives to them.

EDIT: IMHO the good EDM summons could use a 15-20% cost increase.

[Executor]

On a side note Rooted Treant should probably be made immobile. Rather a small issue but while rooted they can still move 2 provinces if you give them a flying carpet, and that can be a life saver in some large battle where you might need his rooted magic paths to defend, and not wait to shapechange burring the battle.

[Psycho]

Originally Posted by kasnavada

The main point in my opinion is that if you do not get a variety of paths, it has NOTHING to make it efficient as an SC with equivalent HP, or to help her survive any given situation, except glamour. It does not even get some resistance to an element. So, basically, you need a complete set of item to boost it to do whatever you'd do with another SC (even a cheaper one) for a lesser cost. Depending on what you're setting her to do, a thug with 20 gem worth of equipment might do better for a fraction of the "gemcost".

I find that even with just A2 for teleportation they are nasty enough and other paths are just a bonus, especially E which lets you get more reinvigoration, protection and opens up a very important spell - rain of stones (with a caster who won't suicide casting it). Fire resistance is easily obtained with the standard fire brand + dragon helmet, cold res can be done with rime hauberk when needed and air resistance cast. More importantly, you should always teleport onto an enemy you've seen, so you will know exactly what equipment you need for that particular situation. A thug with 20 gem cost would be better for simple raiding, but that is not the role for Asynja. I see her primarily as an anti-thug/SC and RoS caster. I am wondering what other SC do you have in mind that can do the same as Asynja and has lower cost.

Originally Posted by rdonj

Psycho - the main argument has been something like: they're too expensive for what they do, they are basically glorified raiders, other things can raid more cheaply, they're not tough enough to use as SCs, they can be mind hunted, and "I'd rather summon shishis." I think most of that conversation was on dom3mods anyway.

They are too expensive for raiders and shishis are indeed better in that role. Though, shishis should be nerfed as well IMO. They can be mind hunted, just as more expensive AQs or any other non-astral mages, I don't see how that is relevant. There are plenty of ways to protect from mind hunts or make them less effective, but this is not the place to elaborate on that. They are not tough enough to use as SCs? I beg to differ, they have high HPs and good attack/defense values, mistform and mirror image. What do people want of their SCs nowadays?

I am glad to see that some experienced players such as Executor, WL and rdonj agree with my qualifications about which EDM summons stand above others and should be toned down a bit.

[Finalgenesis]

Originally Posted by Executor

On a side note Rooted Treant should probably be made immobile. Rather a small issue but while rooted they can still move 2 provinces if you give them a flying carpet, and that can be a life saver in some large battle where you might need his rooted magic paths to defend, and not wait to shapechange burring the battle.

Nooo~ I am quite entertained by flying potted plants! But a question, does immobile tag prevent flying in battle too? I presume this is the sphinx kind of immobile we're speaking of?

On another note, when I was playing around with plants I noticed that if you are in mobile form and script shapechange followed by a spell, the plant both roots itself and cast the spell all in the same turn, not sure whether that's normal or due to some display bug.