Star Wars Mod - II (Sci-Fi Xover Mod)

[Erax]

OK, here's my suggestion for Nuclear Warheads :

Proton Torpedoes I-V : Physics 1 + Missile Weapons 1-5 + Torpedo Weapons 1-5

Concussion Missiles I-V : Physics 1 + Missile Weapons 3-7 + Torpedo Weapons 3-7

Small Proton Torpedoes I-V : Physics 1 + Missile Weapons 1-5 + Torpedo Weapons 1-5 + Smaller Weapons 1-3

Small Concussion Missiles I-V : Physics 1 + Missile Weapons 2-6 + Torpedo Weapons 2-6 + Smaller Weapons 1-3

Heavy Rockets I-III : Physics 2 + Missile Weapons 3/5/7 + Torpedo Weapons 4/6/8 + Smaller Weapons 1-3

Space Bombs I-II : Physics 2 + Missile Weapons 5/7 + Torpedo Weapons 5/7 + Smaller Weapons 2-3

Devastator Torpedoes I-III : Physics 2 + Missile Weapons 7 + Torpedo Weapons 8-10

Flame Carpet Warheads I-II : Chemistry 1 + Missile Weapons 7 + Torpedo Weapons 9-10

Another alternative is to extend the Missile Weapons tech area out to 10 levels and not require Torpedo Weapon research.

What do you think ?

[Erax]

My suggestions come from looking at things from a game perspective, so they are understandably lacking in internal game-universe logic. But let's see what I can do :

APBs vs. TLs - both use magnetic acceleration to fire packages of energy contained in magnetic 'bottles', but the content is different (antimatter for APBs, plasma/photons for TLs).

Regarding SW warhead weapons, I agree that there would be problems. Perhaps we could 'grid' them to require Missile Weapon and Torpedo Weapon technology (maybe Physics 1-3 too). I'll think of something and post a proposal here.

If we give the Empire other fighters first then the Fighters tech area will have to stay extended out to level 5, as it is in your current files. That being said, I agree. On a timeline basis, TIE fighters were developed before gunboats, so I like your other idea better - make some of the lowly fighters like the Pinook, CloakShape, even the Z95 available to all. The better 'other' fighters can be kept in reserve for when we add the Black Sun / smugglers as a separate race.

Maybe we could 'grid' the Gunboats so the Empire only gets them after they have developed fighter-sized shields.

This link here has some excellent craft pictures, by the way, including all the X-Wing Alliance fighters.

Regarding the Force, I have some ideas, but I'd rather concentrate on non-Force tech first. Once we have that coded, we can spend as much time as we want discussing Force stuff.

[jimbob]

well I'm impressed

How many levels out does the plain SEIV missile weapons tech go? If you can match it up level for level that would be optimal, no?

[Andrés]

I prefer not to change any tech maximun.
Fighter tech goes up to level 5 in standard SE4 though only the first 3 give you fighters, level 4 is required for small-q-engines and level 5 gives heavy carriers.

We don't necessarily need to keep the 5 levels of missiles and 5 levels of torps I had made up. The number SW seeker levels can be changed if needed.
What about this:
Torpedo weapons give Proton Torps
Missile weapons (+ physics 1?) give Concussion Missiles
Devastator Torps could be highest torpedo weapons levels or perhaps a torp-missiles crossover.
Flame carpet can have a planetary weapons requirement, and of course fighter weapons have a smaller weapons requirement.

Edit:
I agree with your Last post Erax I had originally modeled nuclear warheads after missile weapons. Proton Torps 1-5 like CSMs and Concussion Missiles 3-7 like plasma mis. I had only added 3 extra levels to add devastator torpedoes and flame carpet warheads. Maybe we should add some extra requirements to those ones and keep torps and missiles in missile weapons.

[ May 27, 2003, 17:07: Message edited by: Andres ]

[Erax]

Fighters already goes up to 5, then ? That's very helpful, we don't have to fit a lot of different fighters into a few tech levels.

Regarding missiles and torpedoes, I actually like having them come from two separate tech areas, that way all warheads become a little less powerful (you can't get them all by researching a single tech). Missiles, rockets and Space Bombs would come from Missile Weapons + Physics and Proton / Devastator Torpedoes from Torpedo Weapons (+ Physics for the Devastator Torpedoes).

Flame Carpet Warheads could be toned down a little and moved over to the Planetary Weapons tech area.

I don't like multiple tech requirements for components (too easy to lose track of the necessary research path when playing), but if we split the components between missiles and torpedoes they will have only two requirements (plus Smaller Weapons for some of them).

[Erax]

Unfortunately, it only goes up to level 7. On the whole, I prefer extending it to 10 and forgetting about Torpedo Weapon research - it's a much more elegant option.

Edit : Fighters is going to be extended out to 5 anyway, so we might as well extend Missile Weapons too.

[ May 27, 2003, 12:45: Message edited by: Chief Engineer Erax ]

[Andrés]

Should "bLaster bolts" be green for the Empire and red for the Rebels or that's just for TLs?
It will be easier if all could be red.

Projectile weapons could give Slughthrowers (a weakened Version of DUCs) so we have all basic weapon techs filled.

[ May 28, 2003, 00:43: Message edited by: Andres ]

[Erax]

For some reason, I imagine bLaster cannon bolts as being yellow-gold.

But the closest thing we see to them in the movies are the bLaster cannon on the AT-ATs, which shoot red bolts, so it would be more rational to make them all red.

Regarding slugthrower cannon, I thought about suggesting them before I decided on bLasters. We are definitely thinking along the same lines ! By all means include them, They would make a very interesting 'pre-tech' addition.

[Andrés]

I've been searching for a little info on lasers and bLasters.
The autobLaster just seems to be just a primitive Version of modern lasers.

from The Completely Unofficial Star Wars Encyclopedia

AutobLaster
this ancient weapon was the fore-runner to the bLaster cannon. Like modern bLasters, it produced a high-intensity packet of coherent light which could be shot into a target. Unlike modern weapons, the autobLaster simply let fly with a salvo of bolts that were hard to aim and of relatively low power. (SH)

BLaster
common name given to any hand-held laser weapon. They come in all shapes and sizes, from small holdout weapons to heavy repeating rifles. They most often employ a small power pack consisting of a ionized cryogenic cells. The power packs generate coherent packets of light, much like a ship-mounted laser. They can be set to various power outputs, from stun to vaporation. (SW, SWSB)

Laser
a device which uses a photonic beam generator to combine coherent energy into packets that can be aimed at a target. Upon striking the target, the packets split the target's molecular structure to varying degrees, based on the strength of the packets emitted. The packets can be generated to lightly stun a target or completely vaporize it. (SWSB)

and from The Star Wars Sourcebook, 2nd edition - West End Games

The terms "laser" and "bLaster" are synonymous, except that "bLaster" usually implies a smaller, lighter weapon. Ship mounted lasers and weapons vary greatly in power.

I'm not fully convinced that bLasters and lasers should come from different techs.

But I found another "obsolete" weapon that could be used instead.
If "pulse energy weapons" give "pulse-waves" we'd have a name coincidence like with torps and missiles.
It's curious that something that sounds more advanced like spatial distortions was actually becoming obsolete during the TOTJ era by the mundane "lasers", and that by the times of the movies was probably considered as primitive as slugthrowers.

from Tales of the Jedi Companion - West End Games

The two main types of energy weapons used throughout the galaxy rely on either pulse-waves or lasers. Pulse-wave weapons fire spherical spatial distortions that disperse as they as they are propelled forward.

and from the CUSWE

Pulse-wave BLaster
an ancient weapon, used before energy weapons were commonplace, pulse-wave bLaster created a spatial distortion when fired. This caused severe damage to solid matter, as the wave altered atomic make-up. The wave dissipated as it moved away from the weapon. (E)

Pulse-wave Induction Spine
this ancient weapon resembled a modern bow, but produced a wave of energy when pulled and released. The ancient Krath used these weapons on their war droids, during the attack on the Jedi convocation on Deneba. (EGD)

Pulse-wave Rifle
an ancient weapon, used before energy weapons were commonplace, pulse-wave rifle created a spatial distortion when fired. This caused severe damage to solid matter, as the wave altered atomic make-up. The wave dissipated as it moved away from the weapon. (TOJC)

[Erax]

Information on ship-mounted bLaster cannon is scarce and conflicting. The first Version of the Z95 was supposed to be armed with 'two triple bLasters', which according to most sources had less range and power than the laser cannon common to later fighters.

The B-Wing is supposed to carry 'two auto-bLasters', among other weapons. I had a hard time finding any info at all on these weapons, but eventually interpreted them to be a weapon with longer range but less damage than fighter-sized lasers (I don't remember how much of this came from my sources and how much was my interpretation, but it explains why an otherwise modern craft would carry an outdated weapon).

I agree with you that bLasters and lasers are the same tech or very similar, maybe we could have BC I with no tech requirements and BC II with Physics I to serve as 'pre-tech' for lasers. Or just forget about them and go with slugthrowers.

Regarding pulse weapons, they sound like they belong to the Early Republic era. We could give them to the Sith and the Republic races, when we get to them.