YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [7/24 players left] - Page 44

Slobby · #**431** December 31st, 2010, 04:39 PM

While it doesn't really apply to this version of YARG the pd20 autocast darkness for EA/MA agartha in cbm1.7 is pretty huge. With that version of cbm I'd probably go O3S1H3D3L3M1 (nuke the enemy supply

) high dom and awake pretender with a combo of A2 (wind guide) & D3(4 if it can be afforded) for sure for EA agartha.

Assuming we play cbm1.7 or the next version in the next YARG installment I don't think EA/MA agartha are in that rough a spot.

Squirrelloid · #**432** December 31st, 2010, 05:12 PM

I'll point out autocast darkness isn't actually that great on PD because it doesn't let you use it offensively, and you have to buy 20PD. It just means that blood nations and undead-based nations still laugh at you on offense, and other nations might need to be a little more careful (or get into blood, which was a good idea anyway).

Rather than choosing when you use darkness, PD-provided darkness means the enemy gets to choose when and with what they fight in darkness with. That's a substantial difference.

(I did not think the PD-darkness was a major buff or even all that useful, tbh).

Slobby · #**433** December 31st, 2010, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squirrelloid

I'll point out autocast darkness isn't actually that great on PD because it doesn't let you use it offensively, and you have to buy 20PD. It just means that blood nations and undead-based nations still laugh at you on offense, and other nations might need to be a little more careful (or get into blood, which was a good idea anyway).

Rather than choosing when you use darkness, PD-provided darkness means the enemy gets to choose when and with what they fight in darkness with. That's a substantial difference.

(I did not think the PD-darkness was a major buff or even all that useful, tbh).

Ah but then I think the saying 'the best offense is a good defense' comes into play. With H3D3 scales supply in your domain is atrocious but of course is irrelevant for EA Ag. And lets be honest EA Ag isn't a high tempo nation but a turtle nation. Having that dominion with strategic pd20 provinces that are garrisioned by decent sized armies backed with mages potentially buy time. Time that is needed to get to alt 6. Once you get alt 6 underway then it's time to take to the offense. I would actually go crazy hard alt like pan and even moreso pushing for alt 9 asap.

But really an alt 6 spell, that's to be casted by D4 mages that you don't naturally have, that make other nations on par with Agartha's pile of crap, that you don't need D gems to funnel into, that costs only 210g. That's a boon.

Of course blood/ud nations don't care but the pd 20 helps EA ag in the early game, which is where it counts and where large amounts of ud/demons shouldn't be encoutered.

If anything being thug raided in the early/mid would be the problem. But that's a problem for most nations anyway.

Squirrelloid · #**434** December 31st, 2010, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slobby

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squirrelloid

I'll point out autocast darkness isn't actually that great on PD because it doesn't let you use it offensively, and you have to buy 20PD. It just means that blood nations and undead-based nations still laugh at you on offense, and other nations might need to be a little more careful (or get into blood, which was a good idea anyway).

Rather than choosing when you use darkness, PD-provided darkness means the enemy gets to choose when and with what they fight in darkness with. That's a substantial difference.

(I did not think the PD-darkness was a major buff or even all that useful, tbh).

Ah but then I think the saying 'the best offense is a good defense' comes into play. With H3D3 scales supply in your domain is atrocious but of course is irrelevant for EA Ag. And lets be honest EA Ag isn't a high tempo nation but a turtle nation. Having that dominion with strategic pd20 provinces that are garrisioned by decent sized armies backed with mages potentially buy time. Time that is needed to get to alt 6. Once you get alt 6 underway then it's time to take to the offense. I would actually go crazy hard alt like pan and even moreso pushing for alt 9 asap.

But really an alt 6 spell, that's to be casted by D4 mages that you don't naturally have, that make other nations on par with Agartha's pile of crap, that you don't need D gems to funnel into, that costs only 210g. That's a boon.

Of course blood/ud nations don't care but the pd 20 helps EA ag in the early game, which is where it counts and where large amounts of ud/demons shouldn't be encoutered.

If anything being thug raided in the early/mid would be the problem. But that's a problem for most nations anyway.

210g *per province*. That gets expensive quickly.

Even with darkness, i'm pretty sure pale one militia loses to regular militia, but i'd have to run the numbers again to be sure, and with similar fates for other agarthan units against comparable indies. (Agarthan military is so bad that even darkness doesn't do more than *almost* level the playing field).

And straight rushing alteration doesn't work out so well for you since Evocation is where most of your good combat spells are. (And you're going to want umbrals, even at the awful price of 3d, so conjuration is also a priority).

I'm reasonably convinced a construction rush for skull mentors and lanterns is entirely the right play and gets you most research faster ultimately, especially since you'll also need the earth boots to make your non-cap mages useful at all.

Finally, you have that backwards. Its 'the best defense is a good offense'. (Mel, the cook on Alice. Also some more notable people, but that reference is funnier).

TheConway · #**435** December 31st, 2010, 11:11 PM

Despite what seems to be a rather unneeded level of *****iness from squirrelloid about this game and Agartha in general, I think he's right that darkness at pd 20 is essentially nothing. There is simply no way Agartha can be considered anything remotely resembling decent until/unless they A- get some *significant* stat boosts on their troops, and B- something is done to make Oracles not be the worst "nation's best" mages in the game.

Slobby · #**436** January 1st, 2011, 10:26 AM

I fail to see how having access to a spell in alt 6 in turn 1 that pretty much halves the att and def stats of most of the units in the game is not a boon.

TheConway · #**437** January 1st, 2011, 05:28 PM

No one is saying it isn't, just that its pretty much insignificant since even under darkness Agartha's troops aren't very good, and getting the darkness is extremely difficult to force while also being very expensive.

WingedDog · #**438** January 26th, 2011, 11:50 AM

It's time to reveal us personality of the brave King of Monkeys, who doesn't know the meaning of the word 'yield'. He fought with grace and valor, so let him reincarnate in another game with more luck on his side.
Kudos.

TwoBits · #**439** January 26th, 2011, 12:03 PM

Turn 79. I'm absolutely flabbergasted I lasted that long.

Short AAR: Kailasa + Indies 9 + Difficult Research = Why me, God?

WingedDog, thanks for the Kudos. But I'd have to say, Kailasa is even worse than Agartha under these conditions.

Well, at least for the vast majority of this game, doing my turns was supremely easy

WraithLord · #**440** January 26th, 2011, 02:47 PM

Thank you for the game TB.

Why were the settings so difficult for you?- Uber bless or awake SC would have made your expansion a breeze and for mid late game you have astral power to carry the day.

Admittedly, I never played Kailasa in MP, but in SP expansion is very easy at indies 9. I just use some decoys to avoid archers and that's it more or less.

Would you like to share more details re. your build?