Babylon 5 Mod

[Onyx]

I like 1.

[grumbler]

#4 has the best color combination, but as SJ pointed out, needs to look maore "random" (given that the patterns moved across the surface of the craft in a random-appearing pattern).

[Atrocities]

If any one can provide a cool looking texture I would be happy to use it and post the results. I have the set nearly done, its the texture that I am worried about. I want the set to look good and be accepted well by all. So getting the texture down is very important.

[Suicide Junkie]

Try rendering what you used on ship #1, but scale the texture up by 5x or 10x...
#1's texture looks like it might be right, but the scale is so small that it looks mostly like static.

[grumbler]

I have started to play the mod again, and as a result have been playing with the weapons components again. After struggling to make them coherent, a though struck me: what the mod would look like if I just abandoned the whole concept of following the B5wars books and followed the TV series when it comes to weapons. I think, if I want to ever have a playable mod of the game, this is the approach I need to take.

What I wanted to do was simplify the decision-making for the players and AI, while enhancing the flavor of the game by making races more specialized. This means re-writing all the weapons based on a complete conceptual framework, and making each race's weapons choices unique.

The first thing I did was conclude that the Shadows and Vorlons are as advanced at the start as they will ever get. That makes their components very simple, as there only needs to be a single one of each type, and their design files are also easy, as they build only one ship design of each type. To add some flavor, I created some Shadow and Vorlon neutral races, so they there will be some kickass neutral races in a few systems, but all they will do is keep the Younger races out of those "outpost" systems until the Younger races muster sufficient numbers or technology to take them out.

I decided to give each race a weapons technology in which it was highly adept, another in which it was adept, a third in which it was capable, and four of which it was concious.

Races have advanced, improved, and standard research lines in weapons technologies for which they are highly adept.

Races have improved and standard research lines in weapons technologies for which they are adept.

Races have a complete standard research lines in weapons technologies for which they are capable, and a truncated one (max tech level = 7) for those of which it is concious. Races are unable to research anything in techs of which they are not concious.

For example, the Minbari are highly adept at Molecular Weapons. They have Minbari Molecular Weapons, Minbari Improved Molecular weapons, and Minbari Advanced Molecular weapons, giving them weapons like the Fusion Cannon, Improved Fusion Cannon, and Advanced Fusion Cannon, plus PD versions of all three. They are adept in Lasers, so have the Neutron Laser and Improved Neutron Laser, but no Advanced Neutron Laser. They are capable in Gravimetric Weapons but have no Advanced or Improved Gravimetric Weapons. They are concious of Antimatter Weapons, Electromagnetic Weapons, Particle Weapons, and Matter Weapons, and can build up to tech level 7 in those. They are not concious of Ballistic, Ionic, or Plasma weapons and can build none of them.

Races get damage bonuses for weapons in which they are highly adept, adept, or capable (better bonuses for being more adept).

This gets rid completely of the "General" weapons category. While some races will in effect have the same weapons (for instance, the Yolu are also highly adept at Molecular Weapons and have the exact same weapons and values for them as the Minbari) I have tried to make this as rare as possible, and the Yolu do not share the Minbari laser weapons.

It also gets rid of the "Earth Alliance is the master of all weapons technologies" syndrome. The Ea will be just another race, with three types of weapons it cannot build, and another four it cannot build very well.

The idea is that the Advanced Weapons of each race will be First-Ones-like, but will take a long time to research. In the meantime, races can get quickly to some decent matter weapons (everybody but the Shadows and Vorlons can build matter weapons, but only the Hurr can build highly advanced ones), and more slowly to decent weapons in which they are adept to some degree, but no one can build everything. Players will not even see technologies that don't yield them anything.

Another advantage of this system is that the AI_research files are pretty easy to create if there is a systematic research path to follow. I only have to create a master with "[Highly adept technology] Level 1" "[Capable technology] Level 1" and so forth, and then do a global replace for each race using the appropriate racial tech. There will be a few outliers like the Minbari scanner/jammer that will have to be manually placed, but this is much less onerous than trying to track each weapons tech for each race.

Any thoughts on this? Anyone want to grind through the process needed to punch out an entire race's worth of weapons? I have finished the Minbari as a test case, and am taking it for a spin right now. However, it takes time to generate the weapons and if people are interested in seeing a playable mod before summer, they might want to chip in.

[Fyron]

If the weapons are going to essentially be the same for each race (Hurr and Minbari Molecular Weapons are identical), all you need to do is create one set of weapons and copy/paste them for each race. Create the basic, improved and advanced weapons of all 7 types, then splice them together as appropriate for each race. Simple find/replace of the tech area names will get the tech reqs set in a hearbeat. I think this would be the easiest, and therefore best, solution. You could even use SJ's tech gridder program (on http://imagemodserver.mine.nu under tools somewhere) to make all of the weapons from 21 base templates (basic, improved and advanced of each category). It can make single area component lines quite well.

I'll post a little tutorial on the tech gridder for you if you want it.

[Onyx]

Outstanding concept Grumbler. The KISS theory is usually the best.
This design system will greatly increase the canon feel of the mod.
You should be supported and encouraged with the plans you have so far. I hope you consider implementing these ideas with other unnecessarily complicated techs to further increase the canon feel of the game.
Great idea.

[Fyron]

What else is unnecessarily complicated? The armor system is just right. The facilities are not too complex, just way too expensive to build...

[Onyx]

If nothing else was unnecessarily complicated no-one would have felt the need to redo it. The armour system is unnecessarily complicated and that has already been covered in previous posts here.
A simple but elegant, race based system would make it easier for the AI to build something accurate and effective. It would also help those who just want to play an accurate B5 representation without having to guess how much of what armour/structure etc to put on their battleship.
I agree with Grumbler that a little more watching B5 and using that as a source of inspiration and a little less rule-book reading will give us something more playable and fun.
I'm not trying to upset anyone, just telling it how I see it.

[Suicide Junkie]

Onyx said:
If nothing else was unnecessarily complicated no-one would have felt the need to redo it. The armour system is unnecessarily complicated and that has already been covered in previous posts here.
It would also help those who just want to play an accurate B5 representation without having to guess how much of what armour/structure etc to put on their battleship.

The same way you have to "guess" how many shields to put on your ships in stock? The same way you have to "guess" which mix of short-range, long-range and special damage type weapons to use? Oy.

Don't treat the armor like stock. A couple components thrown in to fill space at the end of your design will be useless.
Try out ships with 10%, 20%, 30% armor and see which wins. NOT just 2 or 3 armor components.
You'll quickly get an idea of what works if you just use the simulator. That's what it is there for!

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I'll see about making you a super-simplified version sometime this week.

Some questions:
1) Tech grid (Y/N)?
Allows customized research into lowering costs vs increasing hitpoints, etc. Upgrade decisions remain trivial (push the upgrade button and you're done).
2) Multiple thickness (Y/N)?
Allows tradeoffs between sheer hitpoints and absorption %
Gives you some actual choices rather than just "how much".
3) Allow mounts to simplify component set (Y/N)?
A couple mounts makes for fewer component families.
4) Superstrong ancient techs (Y/N)?
Semi-balanced against economic & misc. disadvantages, or will roleplaying / AI control be used to hold them back?
5) Insert suggestion here: _______