Another Newbie Slugfest - Restarted

[The Panther]

Let's see. You are saying that a player who takes a small bit of territory, castles up every single province, buys artifacts that are woefully underpriced, and never figths a war for 70+ turns deserves to win more than a player who fights and eliminates several players and is expanding while fighting off 4 other players at once? Unbelievable that you would make this statement not once but twice...

I am sorry you thought my post was name-calling. But you started it by saying that I did not deserve to win. Besides, it was late at night and I was unhappy with all the staling I was doing in all my games. All I said was that your statement about me not deserving to win was totally absurb, which it is. Not your fault that you are attempting to take advantage of the many loopholes in the game. I have no idea if you would have succeeded or not. I am certainly not at all interested in finding out, because then I might know for sure that the late game is messed up instead of just suspecting it.

Also, in my C'tis game where I am on turn 133 or so, it was the first time I understood just how horribly underpriced both fever fetishes and especially clams happen to be. A few months ago, I did not know this small fact. I do now. No wonder there are so many games with these nerfed or banned. The only reason I made those statements on your Entwined Destiny game was because you said that clams were not underpriced, which is completely wrong. I could not let it stand. They did partially fix the problem by moving to the smaller map Inland, I noticed.

The late game sure needs some better micromanagement to be playable. It just takes too long to make a turn every day or every other day. I suppose it is because I was in 4 games, which is far too much.

Nuff said, I am through with whining. For now anyway!

[Steerpike]

Im sorry you have so much on your plate Panther, sounds like you are having an awful time in real life. It will get better, always does.
I for one want to remember all the fun I had fighting you in the early stages, the little victories and the big defeats.
I also had fun wiping foul Pasha and decieving Dragonfire from the face of the map.
One of the airqueens was mine, as well as a king of Fire (I summoned them not Deccan which was a surprise) but managing his nation was a lot of time out of the day.
Just going through the clams and fever fetishes scattered all over the place was a bit of a drag, and he had nowhere near as many as Boron.
Maybe it was because I hadnt been there from the beginning made it seem time consuming.

[The Panther]

I had the third air queen. I decided to summon one just in case and was surprised when a lady answered my call! I also had all the arch devils, and they were doing extremely well for me in killing Marignon.

The early wars were so much fun in this game. It really turned sour for me when I killed all those tomb worms of yours due to the 50-move limit. This sure made me sick to the stomach, but I was on vacation with my wonderful daughter at the time and was not paying much attention to the game. I then paid far less attention to the game after that event.

If the game were to continue, I had already decided to sue for peace with you and join together to rightfully and justly eliminate the turtling nations. I was already allied with Arco and was going to try and help him by attacking Boron's tartarians (using ghost riders) that were seiging the arco castles. I was even considering suing for peace with Marignon and letting him keep his current territories to help against Boron.

[Boron]

Apology accepted and also my apologies because my post was also a bit harsh i think .

Just a few answers to your viewpoints from my 180 degree turned viewpoints : Ultimate horder vs. Ultimate warmonger + rusher :

I think for taking all the hoarding micro pain i would have deserved a win also . I probably invested about the same time in my hoarding + "ultimate" lategame armies planning then you in your SC equpipping + warmongering .

That you like the earlygame so much and that i like the lategame so much is probably a bit biased also by our nation selections + god designs . While i normally design everything according to good hoarding you seem to rather design for rushing . Both are legitime strats and alexti often said on the board that if you rush quick enough you can win vs. hoarders also .
Greame and other veterans agreed to those statements .

I have probably a rather high micromanagement pain tolerance also . Long trained by playing Euopa universalis 2 , master of orion 2 , Victoria and Hoi

One additional thing with clams : Aku's clams where overpowered , mine weren't ( as much ) .

The reasons for this are that no artillery spells work underwater and he as a water nation has incredible advantages to defend underwater .

I had everything stationed in my capitol and 1 astral dome and 3-4 air domes .
So each artillery spell would have 10% chance to break through .
Flames from the sky are not very expensive , 20 fire gems . And you can cast them as abysia really easy .
So if you would have saved fire gems and attacked my capitol with 20 flames from the sky in 1 turn a few would have gotten through and probably eliminated lots of my clam stockpiles . At least if you had dispelled my GoH before .

At least with a joint effort with the other nations you could have probably rather easily achieved the 20 flames on my capitol in one turn even without much hoarding from your side .


If i instead spread my hoarders doming all those provinces is very expensive .
Since i massively hoard i normally aim for at least 500 clams . If i spread them then to 10 provinces there are in each 50 clams then , still good flame targets .
Since for firegems there is not much need expect for a few special items and the flames even without hoarding you can save your firegems for a few turns and then do a clam destruction artillery .

Once the nation can hoard in the water + well defend it like Aku this problem has gone and he can stock all his clams in his capitol and guard them well .

So hoarding water nations are unfair , but as long as the clams are hoarded on the continent they are not such a big problem at all especially since most horders aren't that big in territory .

[Aku]

You also forget the fact that Boron for some reason NEVER gets into a war until late game...he must be doing some hefty bribes to his neighbors to not attack him lmfao. If Boron in any of his games are attacked before turn 50 he would die extremely easy but NOBODY ever attacks him for some weird reason lol.

I believe hoarding is fine its Boron's neighbors that always give Boron the perfect hoarding environment in every game. So to fix this is not to nerf hoarding but to make Boron's neighbors to be less timid to attack him.

[Boron]

Well it is my Aura .
I haven't chosen without reason the name of the god of the dead , Boron as nickname

[Steerpike]

I thought Boron was an element?

[The Panther]

Of course, much of this could be fixed by eliminating clams (and fetishes) entirely or attaching a proper price to them, like W4 or W3S1. Apparently the devs are aware of the problem because the price will be increased in Dom3 (or so I have heard). I would definitely favor complete elimination, forcing everyone to find their gem and gold income the proper way through province ownership and site-searching. Cheap artifacts to replace this just ruins the game.

And yeah, I do suppose that I don't like the micro at all, for I just do not have the time available for it. Making a long turn every day or 2 is just too much in my life. I could never have the patience to hoard myself to a win. Never! There are many, many more things I would rather be doing then spending a couple of hours each day on long dominions turns.

I suppose you just annoyed the heck out of me by saying I did not deserve to win this game. That's all there is to it really, and there are certainly no hard feelings.

To each his own.

[PashaDawg]

I thought Boron was a brand of detergent.

[Zapmeister]

The Panther said:
... or attaching a proper price to them, like W4 or W3S1.

That's overkill, IMHO, and few nations would be able (or want) to make any clams at all. I hope they make it W2N1, increasing the cost by 50% and making 2 paths required.