OT: For all the genocidal dictators...

[Growltigga]

I am a computer geek. I am sure you will have no trouble finding much ammunition to use against me in that regards. Most of it deserved I am sure.

I am actually sure that I do have significant ammunition against computer nerds (which is a bit of a surprise). I recall you mentioned you have children, so I am assuming you have been near to a female at some point in your life (or at least once). I suppose the computer nerd profession is such that it really is too boring to even make jokes about...

But you can't do that, because that is what I was doing. You hit the ball, I was merely attempting to get it back to the keeper before you got safely across the crease.

Er no, other way round I think. YOu need to reconsider who was keeping who on target [PS was your sporting analogy baseball?]

I will thank you to not lump me in with them.

I will be delighted not to lump you in with your fellow rednecks. I am also delighted to see at least one American who can rise above it.

My comments were not only bound to be emotive, they were intended to be so.

Yes, your comments were emotive but it is obvious that the mens rea behind your remarks was to make your point AGAINST the English in particular. You are aware that I recently spent a considerably amount of money watching my team play in the World Cup in Japan, and it is obvious that on this basis, you were trying to (I beleive the American phrase is) "score a point".

Given the profound fallaciousness of your remark, of course it is only a naturla reaction for us europeans to frankly lose bladder control.

Whether or not you agree it can be, or even should be attained is a point of debate. You can argue that one does not have an inalianble right to freedom of speech. I can argue one does, and that any government that attempts to restrict this right is unnatural. Debating that point does not change the nature of the goal itself.

Now, this is one of the first things you have said that actually makes sense [ducking under desk]. I do believe however that this whole debate started in analysing whether or not the United States has true Freedom of Speech and whatever you wish to tell me otherwise, we are back to this proposition.

You can stand by your statements and that is your right. I however, have had this debate dozens of times with Americans and it is interesting that the people who primarily do not believe you have true freedom of speech in the US are your attorneys. I find that interesting.

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by Growltigga:
I am actually sure that I do have significant ammunition against computer nerds (which is a bit of a surprise). I recall you mentioned you have children, so I am assuming you have been near to a female at some point in your life (or at least once). I suppose the computer nerd profession is such that it really is too boring to even make jokes about...

ROFL! I'll have you know sir that I am considered something of a "stud" among my fellow computer nerds having been with two women in my lifetime.

Er no, other way round I think. YOu need to reconsider who was keeping who on target [PS was your sporting analogy baseball?]

No, this was a pathetically inept attempt at putting into cricket terms so that you would understand. I recently had occasion to catch a game, or match or whatever you call it on ESPN 8 between the Pakistani and Dominican Republic teams. It was quite interesting and has caused me to seek out additional information on the sport. If you have any direction in that regard I would appreciate it.

Yes, your comments were emotive but it is obvious that the mens rea behind your remarks was to make your point AGAINST the English in particular. You are aware that I recently spent a considerably amount of money watching my team play in the World Cup in Japan, and it is obvious that on this basis, you were trying to (I beleive the American phrase is) "score a point".

Given the profound fallaciousness of your remark, of course it is only a naturla reaction for us europeans to frankly lose bladder control.

Ah, but here you are off the mark. My comments were not aimed at English, or Europeans in particular, only at you as a football fan. The reference to body paint in your national colors was only by point of comparison. I was no more saying that all English do this than you were saying all Americans are linedancers. I could have just as easily compared linedancers to the ridiculous American Football fans that dress up in their teams regalia, but that would not given weight to my point that idiotic behavior is not limited to linedancers per se, because as both Groups are primarily made up of Americans they could in fact be the same people. And at any rate it would not have gotten a sufficient reaction out of you, which I have already admitted was at least part of the objective.

An example of a snide comment directed at persons of a specific nationality would be something like pointing out that europeans lack of bladder control is something which is beyond my means to affect. Please note that I do not make this comment except for the purposes of demonstrating the difference to you.

I do believe however that this whole debate started in analysing whether or not the United States has true Freedom of Speech and whatever you wish to tell me otherwise, we are back to this proposition.

That is in fact where you have attempted to take the debate. But the debate in fact began as a discussion of whether or not the particular offending website should be protected under the right of Freedom of Speech. You have chosen rather than to speak to this point to try and redefine whether we as Americans in fact have this right that the majority of us hold as self-evident.

You can stand by your statements and that is your right. I however, have had this debate dozens of times with Americans and it is interesting that the people who primarily do not believe you have true freedom of speech in the US are your attorneys. I find that interesting.

This I cannot speak to other than to point out that making any sort of assumption based on your discussions would be a hasty generalization, which is another logical fallacy. One would have to assume that either you have spoken to every American attorney, or that the opinions they expressed were actually their opinions and not simply polite conversation aimed at not causing you distress, or that their opinion is somehow representative of the opinion of all lawyers in the US. And even assuming those things, it is not uncommon for one that is in a certain field and well versed with it's negative aspects to become jaded to it.

[ July 16, 2002, 20:17: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

[rdouglass]

ROFLMAO!!!!!

This is GREAT!!! WE WANT MORE...WE WANT MORE!!!!........

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by rdouglass:
This is GREAT!!! WE WANT MORE...WE WANT MORE!!!!........

Heh, you are reading this? I had thought Gt and I chased everyone else out of the room by now.

Geo

[Ragnarok]

Originally posted by geoschmo:

quote:

---

Originally posted by rdouglass:
This is GREAT!!! WE WANT MORE...WE WANT MORE!!!!........

Heh, you are reading this? I had thought Gt and I chased everyone else out of the room by now.

Geo

---

Heck yeah man we're reading this. LOL This is friggin hilarious. It's 10 times better then soaps even though I never watch soaps because they are gay... But it's still better. lol

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by Growltigga:
Ooh, I think you need to get off your anti-lawyer kick.. lawyers are not overpaid compared to other professionals (eg accountants, actuaries and venture capitalists particularily)...

But it's so FUN to kick lawyers.

You do know that that is all in jest, no? I would not be so simple minded as to think all lawyers everywhere are overpaid and not worthy of respect. Well, they aren't all overpaid anyway...

Puke, it sounds like you have enough problems of your own... the point I want to make here Geo is that I showed your post on our sports behaviour to 2 germans, 1 belgian and 3 english colleagues... it really was better than laughing gas.. to accuse us of jingoism and patriotric fervour in our sports is an absolute classic, do the words "pot", "kettle" and "black" mean anything to you.

Gt, please do try to keep your comments at least a little bit to the point of the discussion. You keep going off on these tangents where noone else has gone and it makes it terribly inconvient to try and keep things moving along. If you didn't have such a prejudice against all things American you would realize that my comments were in no way directed at British, Belgians or Germans. YOU commented that linedancers showed a lack of intelligence by the actions they partook in persuit of their hobby, and i was merely pointing out that soccer fans show many of the same lacks of mental prowess. Not British soccer fans, just soccer fans in general. I could have said the same thing about American Football fans, except for the part about beating the crap out of each other. For that matter, booing is one thing, but how many people got beat up in Salt Lake City for carrying the wrong flag? I didn't hear about it if it happened at all.

The fact that you don't seem to get is that I am not anti-British. I never even brought up any comments about American fredom of speech being better than European Freedom of Speech. You were the one that opened that particular box unfortunatly. In my mind you either have freedom of speech either or you don't have freedom of speech. It's a human condition, it's not about countries.

Freedom of Speech is constitutionalised in the US, rather than legislated as it is in most european countries.

So you think this means you can say what you like about what you like when you like.

Fine, try it. You try and take your soap box to the middle of your town today and preach on something like kiddy porn. You think you will be free to do so?

WRONG. You will be arrested. Try looking at the US public order offences and see what they really say.

You really don't get it do you? We can in fact do that exact thing and will not be arrested. You may have to get a permit or something. The Klu Klux Klan does that very thing several times a year all over the country. And As Baron pointed out,. the perverts at NAMBLA even have their own organisation and everything. It's all protected by law.

Many people think the permits are a tool used by the government to restrict the freedom of speech, and so say they are wrong. That I am sure has happened from time to time, but actually they are there to protect the person wanting to speak those things which are unpopular. It allows the local municipality to prepare for the speech and call in more police protection so the inevitable crowd doesn't turn into a mob and take away the person right to free speech, along with their head.

Where do you get your incorrect ideas about the US? I guess the European press must protray America as some sort of facist police state. I guess if a few shameful incidents get all the TV coverage that is what you would think. I can tell you I live in America, and that's not the way it is.

But even if you don't file a permit and go down town and start preaching on some unpopular topic, you may get arrested, but it WON'T be for the words that you speak Gt. It will be for causing a disturbance. In fact you may not get arrested at all. The cop may simply glare at you and tell you to move along. If you refuse he'll take you away and throw you in jail. The fact is if the cop wasn't there you might get killed, and then he'd have to fill out more paperwork, and cops hate paperwork.

You might spend a night or two and get a fine for public disturbance. But there are no prisons in the US for people that say the wrong things. Hell, there aren't even enough for the real criminals. You will be back on the street in no time.

As a lawyer you must know the difference between constitutionalising something and legalising it. But I'll explain it for the room.

If something is legalised, the government is saying, we have the right to take this away from you if we choose, but we are not going to do that. We will let you do it, for now at least.

Constitutionalising something says, I the government do not have the right to take this right away from you. As long as we are bound by this document I cannot do so. We could as a people ammend the constitution and give the govenrment the right to restrict our freedom of speech if we wanted to, but it would be really stupid to do so.

Geoschmo

[ July 16, 2002, 13:17: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

[Puke]

does that mean its 10 times more gay, or 1/10th as gay as soaps?

and do you mean "days of our lives" gay, or "90210" gay? or liberachi gay? or perhaps you meant "soap dropped in the prison showers" gay.

whichever it is, im entertained, and i have exclusively been entertained by straight porn before. unless you count lesbian porn, but im not sure this is as good as that.

oops, i was supposed to have left this topic alone. darn.

[Ragnarok]

Originally posted by Puke:
does that mean its 10 times more gay, or 1/10th as gay as soaps?

and do you mean "days of our lives" gay, or "90210" gay? or liberachi gay? or perhaps you meant "soap dropped in the prison showers" gay.

whichever it is, im entertained, and i have exclusively been entertained by straight porn before. unless you count lesbian porn, but im not sure this is as good as that.

oops, i was supposed to have left this topic alone. darn.

ROFLOL That was great man. Loved it. But gay as in flaming gay, as in a gay guy going "Oh thank god for spandex!" That gay. Gay enough?

[DirectorTsaarx]

The website in question reminded me of a site I found way back in '95, when the public web was still fairly new. It was a site dedicated to "Negative Population Growth", although it advocated far more peaceful measures (without any silly "how fast can you click a mouse button" crap). Anyway, there really is a problem with overpopulation on good ol' planet Earth, and environmentalists all over the world are trying to 1) convince people the problem exists, and b) convince people to SOLVE the problem (generally by birth control, etc. rather than genocide, of course).

I do support one thing stated on the webpage that started this whole debate: the vast majority of people on this planet are not smart. Not smart at all. How these people figure out how to have babies & raise them to an age where the reproductive cycle can keep on rolling is beyond me... And I have to say, the stupid people seem to have more babies than the smart people; probably because the smart people get distracted and spend their time playing games like SE4 rather than having sex with their spouses...

(Like how I turned this topic back around to Space Empires?)

(Oh - and sorry for the reference to "Mad About You" and the main character's habit of forgetting whether he was "counting" reasons by number or by letter)

[Phoenix-D]

"the vast majority of people on this planet are not smart. Not smart at all. How these people figure out how to have babies & raise them to an age where the reproductive cycle can keep on rolling is beyond me..."

The vast majority of people on this planet live in conditions where they have multiple kids to increase the chance of SOMEONE living long enough to have kids of their own.

Phoenix-D