Counter battery fire question

[Weasel]

As a suggestion, and strictly just a discussion here, I don't wish to make anyone mad , CB could be based upon blocks of range. For example, Syria has 130mm guns with 217 range, while Turkey has 175mm with range of 227, so Syria can never CB Turkey but Turkey can CB Syria (in my game I have routed/destroyed 7 of 10 batteries with CB).

In the block suggestion a block could be 150-199, 200-250, so any battery with a range of 200+ can CB another battery within the block, in this case 227 with a battery of 217 since batteries do not deploy at extreme range. A battery with a range of 175 cannot CB a 200+ but the 200+ can obviously CB anything down the ladder.

OR: remove individual battery ranges and set all to a like, so anything with a 200+ range is set to 204 for example, while anything with a 150=199 is set to 175.

I don't know if block range could be coded in, but I do know that battery ranges could be changed, and I am more then willing to help or do it myself if the idea is considered to have merit.

I only bring this up for 2 reasons: 1. Batteries do not deploy at extreme range as they would not be able to support the advance if they did and 2. Checking Syria artillery he can never CB me which makes him defenseless, as my 175mm out range anything he can buy.

[Imp]

Blocks would not work, in your example why cant the 199 engage the 200.
Agree with the idea though if its codeable allowing units to CBF on units whose range is less than say 20 higher would solve the issue.
At the moment if you have the range advantage you know your units are 100% safe, about the only thing in the game with no randomness.
Also means smaller calibre could occasionaly CBF the big boys with the longer range.

If desired could make it another option on the artillery supply screen.
Reserved for CBF gets to engage as above for a penalty to on map call times.
Or just let batteries bought as general support CBF units with a range 15-20 higher, think they already are more likely to CBF than other units

[Weasel]

I didn't think blocks would work either, but to answer your question why not a 199 shoot at a 200, well because it is short of 200 and 199 represents all the lighter field pieces. I honestly think guns should all have the same range when in a certain area, 200s get 210 for example, 100s gets 175 or something like that.

I doubt anything will change, so from now I will suggest to my opponents that all off map artillery have their tubes turned off when not actively shooting an on map mission so there is no CB, it is the only way to make off map guns equal.

[Suhiir]

But artillery isn't equal.
Take for instance the US 175mm, it was designed specifically for counter battery fire. Sure it was used mostly for normal missions (artillery is never held in reserve after all), but that was it's primary task.

[jivemi]

Well yeah. If artillery have different ranges then they ain't equal. How could they be?

[Weasel]

Originally Posted by Suhiir

But artillery isn't equal.
Take for instance the US 175mm, it was designed specifically for counter battery fire. Sure it was used mostly for normal missions (artillery is never held in reserve after all), but that was it's primary task.

You miss my point: with artillery having different ranges you can dominate a player in a game, such as I am doing, with him having no way at all to counter it. He cannot move his guns, he cannot hope to CB your CB batteries, or anything, he just sits and gets killed. As I stated earlier, my 4 x175mm batteries have now routed/destroyed 7 of 10 130mm batteries in about 20 of 40 turns, and his best battery he could buy, an MRLS, still could not reach my 175mm, thus it is unfair to him. Also, as stated, you do not set batteries up at maximum range, in fact they are normally 1 or 2 miles behind the front line for medium/heavy guns (talking ww2/mbt). There are guys who have been/are in the artillery on this board, they can chime in.

[Aeraaa]

Originally Posted by Weasel

You miss my point: with artillery having different ranges you can dominate a player in a game, such as I am doing, with him having no way at all to counter it. He cannot move his guns, he cannot hope to CB your CB batteries, or anything, he just sits and gets killed. As I stated earlier, my 4 x175mm batteries have now routed/destroyed 7 of 10 130mm batteries in about 20 of 40 turns, and his best battery he could buy, an MRLS, still could not reach my 175mm, thus it is unfair to him. Also, as stated, you do not set batteries up at maximum range, in fact they are normally 1 or 2 miles behind the front line for medium/heavy guns (talking ww2/mbt). There are guys who have been/are in the artillery on this board, they can chime in.

Well. Although artillery rarely fires against targets at the maximum range, so does the enemy artillery. In order for the latter to be able to be used effectively on the battlefield, it has to be closer than what its range suggests, thus more vulnerable to artillery that has longer range than it. Artillery range is an actual prerequisite for an artillery piece to be used for CB fire, you cannot go around that.

As for the way to counter an opponent that has superior artillery to you, the answer is simple, though tedious. Buy on map artillery and use shoot-and-scoot technique (fire, then relocate to avoid CB). SP artillery pieces are the best for this, but even towed arty with prime movers can suffice. An added benefit of on map artillery is that it can be resupplied, unlike off map arty, while a drawback is vulnerability to air strikes and on map units. However, if you believe that the enemy artillery is much more of a threat than the latter, it is a risk worth taking (plus, it is very rare that a player has a huge amount of air strikes available in a random battle anyway).

[Mobhack]

Counter battery firing is a simple abstraction in the game. The primary metric for this is the gun's range(s). If you have equal or greater range than a target piece then you can fire CB, if not, you cannot. Simples.

It wont be changing.

[Weasel]

Originally Posted by Mobhack

Counter battery firing is a simple abstraction in the game. The primary metric for this is the gun's range(s). If you have equal or greater range than a target piece then you can fire CB, if not, you cannot. Simples.

It wont be changing.

Believe me, I had absolutely NO expectation that it would be changing. To fix a lopsided part of the game by saying "don't buy off map artillery" is silly. Your tanks are better then mine, so I won't buy tanks, just infantry; oh wait a minute, your infantry out gun mine, guess I am just buying trucks.

As I said, I will be turning off my tubes and in fact I am going to offer my opponent a draw even though I am winning, just because I think "abstraction" and basing on who can put his guns the furthest back is a lazy way of creating a system.

[DRG]

Fine......do that. YOU are the only one b*ching about it and we are happy with the way it works..... the entire game is an abstraction so this one fits right in......if your arty has a longer range than your opponent...your arty wins CB ** IF** the other side hits you....if they are both equal then it's who hits who first with the most who wins that part of the battle and if the random number generator smiles on you your results a better......another "abstraction"...maybe it might even fire CB just when you need it most ..another "abstraction"