Neo Standard for SE V?

[Atrocities]

Imperator Fyron said:
A lot of SE4 ship set authors never bothered with neostandard images, due to the extra work involved.

I don't think that is a correct or fair statement. There is no direct proof that they didn't want to make more ships, they just didn't. That is unless they posted that that was why they never made more ships.

[President_Elect_Shang]

Atrocities said:
I don't think that is a correct or fair statement. There is no direct proof that they didn't want to make more ships, they just didn't. That is unless they posted that that was why they never made more ships.

Good point Atrocities. I still think in the end it will depend on the resident shipset expert to give the final call. Which is you! Fyron and I and everyone else can beat this subject to death. I think you should spell it out for us. What is the Neo+ and Neo++ going to have? What do you want from us modders? Once you have what you need from us push ahead with the project. You will be the leader setting the standard for SE5. As I said already, this is the realm of the shipset maker. Take what we modders say with a grain of salt. You know how we love to piss and moan between each other anyway.

[Fyron]

I think the modders are a bit more important than shipset authors in determining what the neostandard needs... Shipset authors that are so inclined will make whatever modders ask for. What will be used by modders is what the neostandard needs to be. The goal here was to see what modders needed, then we could come up with a list. This most certainly shouldn't be determined by just one person.

Atrocities said:
I don't think that is a correct or fair statement. There is no direct proof that they didn't want to make more ships, they just didn't. That is unless they posted that that was why they never made more ships.

Well, I've spoken to a number of ship set authors about this stuff in the past... Some didn't have the time, some didn't care about making extra images. Others did. Remember, the vast majority of SE4 ship set authors only made one or two sets.

[Shadowstar]

I'm both a modder and a shipset maker. I can't tell you what other modders will want, but for Starscape, I don't have any plans to use more than the stock ships. However, Starscape is also a very emergent mod. It grows as it is played. During the SE4 episodes of the mod, eventually I ended up creating some ships designed for a monster race but for storyline reasons, it eventually became possible for players to construct thier own variants of these ships and I moved the pics from the monster race's folder into the generic folder.

Eventually, Tau (our resident model-whiz player) ended up making an entire shipset that included a great many designs that were unique for the next version of Starscape. We're talking beyond Neostandard++, this was totally dedicated stuff.

My experiences may be unique among modders, but I convey them here to illustrate a point: mods, even those that are developed around supporting stock, can go off on some pretty wild tangents. Neostandard++ may be designed around supporting them, but how far from the norm can you go without going too far? Where do you draw the lines? When does a ship model go from "potentially useful" to "prohibitively unique"?

[President_Elect_Shang]

Fyron what makes you think shipset artists build sets based on the needs of the modder? Which modder is going to sit on their mod till a shipset is made? Isn't that like counting the chickens before they hatch? We need one person to take charge of this mess and make this take form. Otherwise us modders will sit here and squabble about the standard till we get it perfected to the point of overkill. While we do that what will these shipset artist you speak of, the ones who wait on us modders hand and foot be doing? I say let At take charge, we tell him what we want, he decides what is feasible and practical, and then he puts it into action. Then all our adoring shipset artists/slaves can get to work. Otherwise I have a big a** statue still waiting to be built on my homeworld they could be working on!

Sorry but I have to disagree with you on this one little detail.

[shinigami]

No one expects anybody to sit on their hands waiting for anything. The vehiclesizes file has primary and alternate calls for models. The modder uses whatever he wants for the primary and uses a standard ship for the alternate. No work stoppage. If a standard is adopted later, great, the modder can patch his mod.

As for artists catering to modders, most artists want to see their stuff being used so they kinda have to work with the modders, in a partnership, for lack of a better term.

[Fyron]

The SE4 neostandard was created precisely to cater to the needs of existing mods. Any SE4 ship set author that made his set comply with the neostandard was precisely making his set cater to the needs of modders.

=0=

Let's get this back on track... a few people have posted lists of most needed distinct hulls. What about everyone else? What do you think is most needed?

[President_Elect_Shang]

Ok, Ok, fine I hear you. Still don't see it that way but that is another way to explain the same thing. Moving right along...

Shuttles to represent warp capable small craft.
More Base and Freighter sizes oh so badly!
As for a list what kind of list? I say Juggernaut and you say that is a class not a size. How many warships? I say we need at least:

Explorer
Frigate
Destroyer
Cruiser
Battleship
Dreadnought
Monitor
Juggernaut

Baseship has always seemed like a class not a size to me and Stock Light Cruiser can be used for one of the above. Unique models are nice but what do we need? That really depends on the mod you are talking about. SJ gave his list but I don't need those. I need Shuttle and Pinnace and the rest are more selections of warships, freighters, and bases. More fighters to pick from would be nice but I only use one troop.

[Suicide Junkie]

Of course, ALL of those are roles/classes, and not sizes.
(Though many do have typical sizes, even the ordering isn't fixed over time)

[President_Elect_Shang]

Thank you SJ, that is just the point I was making with my comment here:

President_Elect_Shang said:
As for a list what kind of list? I say Juggernaut and you say that is a class not a size.

To me those are sizes of ships not roles/classes. I honestly do not understand the definition you guys are using. To me a role is "Scout Ship" and a class is "Agamemnon Class" but "Destroyer" is a size. I would read the above example as:
Scout Ship - Agamemnon Class Destroyer
I don't think you guys are using the U.S. Navy standard (I'm not saying am either) so what makes a size a size?