Off topic: How are games failing you?

[Incabulos]

Originally Posted by Ironhawk

Yeah I played fallout and the system there was *slightly* better but still lame. Where is the fun in a game when every battle, from start to finish, requires exactly 3 shots? There is no strategy, no feelings of accomplishment. Just level grinding and new equipment. Its fantastically boring!

As for how the gameplay can be different - of course it can! It doesnt take a genius to think of ideas how. I mean all you have to do is make combat specialized. So you have to use a particular tactic against an enemy rather than the 1-2-3 main attack. Or you have to use a specific weapon. Or have a particular skill to outwit/disarm your enemy. The list goes on, all it takes is a little creativity instead of just plugging another NPC mob into a leveling formula.

Funnily enough fallout has both disarming and particular vulnerabilities. Your standing and skills also reflect what kinds of encounters appear so it does have some nice touches to it.

Although the vulnerabilities could have been implemented better (I think Bioshock does a much better job at the same thing).

[Trumanator]

Yeah, some of the most fun I had in Fallout 3 was shooting the antennae off all those stupid fire ants so they went ballistic on each other.

[Ironhawk]

The fire ants was a one-off mission. The grand majority of the game was resolved by the 1-2-3 attack. No finesse or strategy required.

[Incabulos]

well you did state using particular tactics against particular enemies and it has that across multiple enemy types being vulnerable to particular weapons. You can conserve plenty of ammo and kill faster if you use the right weapon against the right mutant/robot/human. It might not have been particularly well implemented but it was in there.


Part of the issue with corporate games today is that too many decision makers are involved, so even something that starts with a groundbreaking vision and great concept will be watered down and homogenized. Usually the scope broadens and the vision is compromised.

[Trumanator]

My main problem with Fallout 3 was that you couldn't go ANYWHERE without a significant danger. I liked Oblivion's "system" because it was possible to get places without a constant battle, but if you wanted to get some loot or whatever it was easy to just go to the nearest ruin/cave/abandoned fort/whatever. That and I felt like there was much more openness in Oblivion, more factions, more incentives to explore.

[NKIcan]

Fallout was also not my genre of choice. An interesting game, but it played much too much like...Oblivion, morrowind, etc but the loot system and skill system wasnt as fun in my opinion. The V.A.T.S was a great idea though, I did like that.

As to innovation in gaming....Agreed with the FPS comments about gimmicky stuff (Oh look you can DEFY GRAVITY! im lookin at you, prey). But I'd also extend that to other game genres as well. They think they can trick us (and maybe they can, the majority of us) by making a formulaic game and throwing in one or two gimmicks and then call it Ground Breaking!

Formula isnt ALWAYS bad. If a system works for what you have in mind, no need to reinvent the wheel. Problem is, most of the formulas today are subpar and they can do much better. They just choose not to because they are risk adverse and want the product out ASAP.

Combat systems in MMORPGs and RPGs in general are the main offenders here.

[Aezeal]

Well being into Fall-out 3 and Oblivion both (and rating them both just below Baldurs Gate) I must say either leveling system has its benefits.

Unlike most I really LIKED that in Oblivion you always had a challange and it was never too much.
Then again I also like feeling like a god and killing critters in Fall-out 3 . Unlike Trumanator I must say I found Fall out 3 on the easy side the whole game through. Unless you roamed FAR outside the way the initial quests point you (I'm talking FAR out of the way) and just do stuff you encounter and kill whatever critter you encouter you should be leveling pretty fast and I was/am level 20 half way through the game. By the time I encountered my first death claws and enclave soldiers I could easily beat them. Sure some encounters with large groups of supermutants where though and sure I died from time to time but still pretty easy.
Another complaint I hear often is that in the end of both games you will have most stats maxed and however you started won't matter much. This is true, especially for fall out but I think it's intentional (so much stat books etc etc) and it doesn't bother me.
All in all I like the leveling in both games.

I must say I think both games have a lot of content though and I've not seen more in less graphical games (except BG) as has been said.

V.A.T.S. in Fallout made the game very very very very very easy. I Vats everything in sight and it dies

I like the very thought through DnD system more, baldurs gate turn based stuff I liked more too.. but you can hardly expect a comp game developed in a few years max to be equal to a system that has been around much longer.

[JimMorrison]

I thought Prey was an excellent game - especially from the perspective of "if you're going to make an FPS, make it story driven" - as the story was quite engaging.

I had to abandon my game of Oblivion. After painstakingly pushing my Sneak(Stealth?)/Herbalism/Alchemy all to level 10, while my combat skills were all much lower, I suddenly found that I couldn't kill anything, at least not without guzzling nearly irreplaceable potions.

Fallout 3 was far better in that regard I thought, but so much of what made Fallout 1+2 awesome was diluted so badly..... I've nothing against consoles, per se, but I do blame the console for what was "left out" of Fallout 3.....

[Aezeal]

I think fall out 3 was better than the other 2.. the feel of being in a wasteland was much better. What did you miss?

If you pushed your Sneak/Herbalism/Alchemy high and not the rest (combas skills) you didn't play Oblivion very normally. It's even good I think.. if you RP to be a non combattant then you are not a combattant.. and you should remain in the city and fade into obscurity .

[llamabeast]

Yeah, it's fine that you don't get any better at combat without practising, but what's really annoying is that you get _much worse_ because everything else in the world has got far tougher.

I also find that very annoying. With Oblivion it's all about the mods I think. There are some very thorough overhauls, like Oscuro's Oblivion Overhaul, that pretty much fix most of the major irritations.

I also have to play that I played many, many hours of Oblivion very cheerfully before I really realised what was going on with the levelling, so it didn't bother me.