FreshMeat - EA Newbie - (RUNNING)

[anticipatient]

I was surprised to find that pbem is actually really enjoyable!! This will be my second one.

[Executor]

PBEM is much better, and safer, the server crashed in a game I was playing,
( I actually had a shot of winning ), they say that happens rarely, but I'm not very optimistic now.

[meister_miagi]

I actually prefer the llamaserver to network hosted games.

[Renojustin]

Safer, only if the host does not keep a backup of the game. Better? Not by a long shot. Explain how you can possibly justify that when in a network game, you are always a click away from downloading or uploading your turn.

[Darkstone]

Everything on the llamaserver is saved (backed up).

Renojustin, if you're really unhappy with PBEM, I don't think anyone will hold you to staying in this game, but I think it being PBEM was pretty clear from the first post?

(I hope that didn't come off as sounding mean or whatnot, that's not how I meant it).

[Renojustin]

When did I say anything about the state of Llamaserver's backup status?

It would be terrific if someone would intelligently debate the relative merits of the question at hand rather than using straw men arguments or telling people that they're welcome to leave instead. I'm aware that I'm able to leave, thanks for the friendly reminder. And no, the game wasn't set to be PBEM from the first post. Neither am I saying that the game MUST be Network.

What I don't see is how anyone could consider PBEM games to be anywhere near as convinient as a backed-up Network game based on the actual realities of the two systems. If you want to refute the fact of the matter, please do it with actual logic instead of unsupported opinions or thinly veiled hostility.

The truth is that a network game does exactly the same thing that a PBEM games does, except that it is vastly easier to upload and submit turns. And nobody can possibly deny that. So I'm not really sure where you guys get your opinions and aggression from, but to me it just sounds like argument for the sake of being contrary. I'm only trying to simplify the game, which some of us may be playing for a long time. I could sure use the extra hour or two in my life that I'd gain from NOT having to deal with PBEM over 100 turns.

[llamabeast]

There have always been people on the forum who would only play network games, and others who would only play PBEM, and most people don't mind too much. There are advantages to both setups.

Here are some advantages to PBEM:
- It's easier to see the game status from the website than by logging into the game, particularly if (a) you're at work, or (b) you've already half-completed your turn, so you can't connect to the server without your turn being uploaded and there being some danger of hosting occurring using your incomplete turn.
- It's easier to play multiple games at once; you don't have to either keep on retyping the host address/port number, or setting up a load of different shortcuts to dominions each one specifying a different host and port number
- It's easier to keep backups of past turns, since they're kept in your e-mail by default. This can be pretty handy to look at old messages/events, or even just for fun to watch the history of your game
- It is possible for someone other than the owner of the computer to easily admin a game; Dominions itself is rather hard to control smoothly from elsewhere while it's running, while the LlamaServer has the Admin Options interface. I think this is actually fairly key.
- In case of a glitch, e.g. temporary loss of internet access, a PBEM server is much less badly affected than a network server and doesn't need human attention to resuscitate

These are all reasonably minor issues of course, but then again so is the time taken to use PBEM. If you are using a decent mail program (e.g. Thunderbird, or presumably Outlook Express though i haven't used that for some years) it's a matter of moments. I would say when I get a turn e-mail, I will have the game open in literally 5 seconds (since Thunderbird remembers which folder you save your attachments to, and I don't save that many apart from dom3 files).

If you use webmail on the other hand, I can imagine it would be a bit more annoying.

[Renojustin]

Thank you Llamabeast!

Although I do have to say that points 1 through 3 are a bit of malarky there, since

1) in the two network games that I've played, both had an independent internet page dedicated to turn status

2) typing in the host address and port number is easier than sending attachments and/or moving files around into save folders with webmail, and

3) all it takes is the desire to save a turn and it's as easy as point and click.

Points 4 and 5 are exactly what I was looking for, however. Thank you for taking the time to explain the advantages of PBEM to us.

[llamabeast]

Cool, glad that was helpful.

2) and 3) I guess are very much subjective, in particular I never could be bothered to save my old turns before so I find that helpful, but you're right that it's a fairly trivial task. As for 1) - good point, I had forgotten how far the network games have come since I last played one and the status pages and notification e-mails they have now are very cool.

Incidentally if anyone is using an e-mail account they have to check via a website, I highly recommend seeing if you can get Thunderbird or some other e-mail program set up, they make everything vastly easier.

[Executor]

I don't either have anything against network games, only typing in the host address and port number, that really bothers me becouse I have a habit of always checking the status, but I do prefer PBEM becouse It's easier for me not having to check both my mail and then network and like Ilama said it takes literally 5 seconds to attach the file,
But I'm good with either so whatever you decide is fine by me!

And I think it's easier if you need a sub for a few days you just forward the turn, and you can see what the sub did, or didn't do...