Proportions mod Version 2.2 released

[oleg]

In another thread, Alpha Kodiak posted this observation:

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Ok, here is the complete scoop on Ionic Dispersers, at least as run from the simulator. There is no carryover of damage from shot to shot, even in the same volley. I set up a group of 5 sats armed only with a single Ionic Disperser II each. Brought a target ship up close and let fly. No matter how many hits, there was no damage done. I switched to Ionic Disperser IVs which do 30 points of damage per hit. In the first volley, there were three hits. That should have caused 90 damage, enough to destroy 4 engines. However, only three engines were destroyed, one per hit. I then switched to Ionic Disperser Vs which do 40 per hit. As expected, each hit destroyed two engines.

My final conclusion, which causes me severe grief in trying to build my latest AI, is that it is a total waste to put unmodded level I or II Ionic Dispersers on destroyer or smaller ships, as well as small satellites. That is tricky enough, but it also means that it is a waste to put Ionic Dispersers that individually do anything other than even multiples of 20 damage when modified by their mounts. Getting the AI to recognize that will be just about impossible.
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I think it has some serious repercussions for Ionic shield. As it is now, even IS 1 can not be destroyed by Ionic dispersors no matter what ! Well, except for largest base mounts. SE usually choose the biggest components to be hit first. That means that IS can soak infinite amound of damage from ID without even a scratch with only occasional hits been registered to engines.
There might be some balansing problems with IS.

[PvK]

The point is that ionic disruptors are way too poweful without a countermeasure - especially with the increased importance of supplies in Proportions, and in the latest Gold Version (no supplies means no weapons or shields). Also, leaving enemy derelicts that have to be maintained is even more damaging in Proportions, because resources are much harder to mass-produce with quick colony development.

I have tested the Ionic Shields in Proportions and was pretty happy with how they work. They work about like Proportions standard armor, but only against ionic weapons. You may have a hard time destroying the Ionic Shield with Ionic weapons, but well, that's what the Ionic Shield is for. Meanwhile, you will still sometimes destroy engines despite the shield, and of course ignoring all shields and armor that the ship may have, so ionic weapons do not become useless. Ionic shields have their disadvantages, too - they count as an engine, so a ship with an ionic shield has reduced engine design capacity, and of course they take a fair amount of component space, are just like expensive armor against non-ionic weapons, and they can be taken out by non-ionic weapon hits.

So, I think they're serving their intended purpose well. It provides a much-needed mostly-effective countermeasure to ionic weapons, which has its own important trade-offs and limitations.

Unless I'm missing something. They may still need tweaking.

Thanks for the alert though! All feedback is helpful.

PvK

[PvK]

Oh, and with ionic shields around, Massive Engine Destroying Weapons are suddenly more interesting than just researching your own and piling them up.

Actually, a good tweak now might be to extend the engine-destroying weapons trees, to allow more of an arms race between them and ionic shields.

PvK

[oleg]

PvK, I have some problems with Religious tallisman:
I want to make a deeply religios AI (hmmm, what if I really succeed in this .... ) but SE IV swears whenever I put either "weapons always hit" or "sector - sensor interference" (not sure if I spelled them correctly, but I'm absolutely sure there are no mistakes in my design.txt file) as a misc. abillity

SE gives an error "uknown ability value" when processing turn. I checked Norak AI and it does not produce this mistake, BUT it does not put Religious talisman on ships either when I tried Max.tech start (I did adjust AI_settings to design big ships from start).

[PvK]

It can be done. If you don't have a typo with "Sector - Sensor Interference" (Talisman), then it is probably just that your design doesn't have room by the time the AI gets to that Misc ability. Here, though, is an example of a ship that does use a Talisman:

Name := Attack Light Cruiser
Design Type := Attack Ship
Vehicle Type := Ship
Default Strategy := Maximum Weapons Range
Size Minimum Tonnage := 425
Size Maximum Tonnage := 475
Num Must Have At Least 1 Ability := 1
Must Have Ability 1 := Weapon
Minimum Speed := 6
Desired Speed := 500
Majority Weapon Family Pick 1 := 1
Majority Weapon Family Pick 2 := 3
Majority Weapon Family Pick 3 := 2
Majority Weapon Family Pick 4 := 25
Majority Weapon Family Pick 5 := 0
Secondary Weapon Family Pick 1 := 12
Secondary Weapon Family Pick 2 := 11
Secondary Weapon Family Pick 3 := 22
Secondary Weapon Family Pick 4 := 0
Secondary Weapon Family Pick 5 := 0
Shields Spaces Per One := 450
Armor Spaces Per One := 0
Majority Comp Spaces Per One := 1200
Majority Comp Ability := Weapon
Secondary Comp Spaces Per One := 0
Secondary Comp Ability :=
Num Misc Abilities := 10
Misc Ability 1 Name := Point-Defense
Misc Ability 1 Spaces Per One := 200
Misc Ability 2 Name := Planet - Shield Generation
Misc Ability 2 Spaces Per One := 10000
Misc Ability 3 Name := Combat To Hit Defense Plus
Misc Ability 3 Spaces Per One := 10000
Misc Ability 4 Name := Combat To Hit Offense Plus
Misc Ability 4 Spaces Per One := 10000
Misc Ability 5 Name := Sector - Sensor Interference
Misc Ability 5 Spaces Per One := 10000
Misc Ability 6 Name := Supply Storage
Misc Ability 6 Spaces Per One := 200
Misc Ability 7 Name := Shield Regeneration
Misc Ability 7 Spaces Per One := 800
Misc Ability 8 Name := Planet - Shield Generation
Misc Ability 8 Spaces Per One := 90
Misc Ability 9 Name := Planet - Shield Generation
Misc Ability 9 Spaces Per One := 10000
Misc Ability 10 Name := Scanner Jammer
Misc Ability 10 Spaces Per One := 10000

[oleg]

Thanks, it was indeed a problem with space,
RT 1 takes 100 K More like Pyramids, I should say !

[PDF]

PvK,
In Proportions it's a hassle to have an effective StarLiner fleet to move population, and changing settings data raise new problems..

So here's a crossbreeding mod idea from B5 mod : in B5 there are special "Corporate" and "Civilian" bridges components : they give 70 and 90% reduction in ship maintenance, but with awful combat penalties.
Won't they fit neatly in your mod ? They would allow to have larger Liner fleets while keeping the desired proportions ...

In fact since some days I sought a way to have private ships (Liners should be, unless a Soviet Empire playing ) but didn't have any good idea of how to do this, then I stumbled upon them in B5 !

[ May 17, 2002, 16:47: Message edited by: PDF ]

[PvK]

There is already something like this, that I'm not sure if you've noticed yet or not. The small starliner with standard bridge is the low-tech model for transporting population, and is slow and expensive and so on. With research into ship construction and/or cargo and/or starliner modules, however, you can use the "Basic Bridge," "Basic Life Support," and "Starliner Module" components, and also transport hulls will about 30% maintenance reduction, to reduce costs of pop transports. Higher levels of research allow more population to be stuffed onto ships of different sizes, too. It does take some time to develop this technology, of course.

Or did you already know about all that, and think there should be more to reduce the maintenance costs?

PvK

[PvK]

Originally posted by oleg:
Thanks, it was indeed a problem with space,
RT 1 takes 100 K More like Pyramids, I should say !

Are you whining about divine gifts? That's not very pious of you! You've also written incorrectly:

Religious Talisman I is actually 50 kT. It only provides +10 to-hit, but this stacks (in SE4's mathematically exaggerated way) with all other modifiers, and thus gives a major advantage - the equivalent of a 1250-racial-point investment in Aggressiveness, so it's actually pretty awesome, especially since it's just the beginning.

Religious Talisman VI is 100 kT, and is the first one that allows the mega-powerful "always hits" ability.

PvK

[oleg]

Yep, I should be more careful when writing.
I like what you made with RT. It makes more sense than standard SE IV "all or nothing" effect.