Mod: MA al-Nadim - The thousand and one nights 1.01)

[elmokki]

I figure this is how the lowest ifrit and marid will look like. I gave them regular scimitars instead of magical weapons and a shield. I prefer having the elemental bases for them for now atleast.

Ghul's were-hyena form had slightly too dark paws so I made them a bit lighter. The shape of paws might get a little improvement later, but I'm happy enough with them for now.

I made first of the three heroes I was promising, Ali Baba, who isn't that special by himself, but will get a free bandit each turn and can summon three bandits per turn (until I find that over or underpowered anyway). Obviously I made his bandit minions too. Bandits are light infantry with two weapons, stealth and good enough skill to use the two weapons without embarashing themselves too much.

Then there's new sprite for assassin as I wanted an assassin with waste survival and more arabic look. The basic sprite wasn't bad for al-Nadim, but I figured out I might make a proper assassin while I'm making sprites that look a bit like an assassin anyway

And as last I made Sinbad. He'll prevent bad events, have sailing and a little water magic.

EDIT: Apparently the image with all the sprites has grown too large for attaching as .png. I hate using losful formats so I'll start only attaching partial versions for now.

[elmokki]

0.20
- Ghul added as a summon
- Ifrit and marid now have scimitar and shield instead of the magic weapons
- Marid has glamour
- al-Nadim now gets it's own specific assassin
- Ali Baba added as hero
- Ali Baba got some bandits
- Sinbad added as hero
- Flag and banner created
- Alchemist actually has research bonus of 2 now.
- Mubarizun and Mubarizun commander are capital only
- Vizier, Grand Vizier and Alchemist prices were tuned slightly

First post is updated with pics of the flag (or actually pic of the banner, it contains the flag) and new version.

[Wrana]

Sorry for being late - those were my hashishiines.
I think they should be sacred, even if they won't probably be blessed often. However, it may be fixed through #onebattlespell...
Considering your troops I think that it's better to replace (or add to) militia with bedhouin raiders who come only for loot - a widely used practice which survived until Ottoman times. I made those average quality lightly armed infantry and horsemen which fight only one battle just like Ermor gladiators (using #copystats, of course). They may be used as either attack force in early game, or as chaff later.
(Also, we made many troops using improved robes for armor, adding also turban and turbaned helm). Another thing I did was including both light stealthy troops and corsairs. Light raiders fought on foot but used horses for faster movement - thus Move 3.
Another thing I consider important is particularly good horses providing faster movement - this also giving a better offense to light lancers you seem having some small problem with (these are Arabic horses, so heavy Ghulams do not have them)... As for camels per se I just gave them a supply bonus. Camel troops can be made better if you consider that early Muslim armies used camels to transport their archers up to 4 per camel (I'd made just 2) and arrows for them. So, I propose to include a new "camel bow" (or somesuch) with unit description mentioning additional arrows and give camel archers 2 such attacks. Combined with animal awe, it would be quite good, I think. Another possible summon is cheetah.
As for commanders, I included also "Baghdad thieves" as spies. Another type you seem to forgot is khadi - judge (thus patrol bonus) and low-level priest. Higher level capital-only priest can be named Hoji.
Mystics are good and I also thought that alchemists should be also researchers. I made another mage's type - sorceress with Nature and Air magic, as these are often mentioned in tales. I thought about making some access for Buried in Sand for these nations as it's thematic, but am not sure.
As for genies I think you don't need to go for Marids as "water genies". Actually, the name came from something with sense like "infidel" (actually, various genie names were often used interchangebly, but that's another story). So I decided that while all EA genies are sacred, by MA some choose to follow the Prophet and other choose not to. The former became "faithful jihn" - sacred, including both troops and mage-commanders (male and female, with different magic), while the latter became "marids" - non-sacred, but their commanders are stronger mages (troops would be either absent or easier to summon).
And your ghuls are great!
I can add my opinion on genie races if you want to make a common work, but I must warn you that this is mostly based on Persian sources.
What certainly should be included is a spell summoning genies to build a palace!

Here are also Alhazred and Old Man of the Mountain if you want them (maybe magic should be slightly reduced; monsters Hassan summons are assassins and disciples - stealthy sacred raiders which are normally capital-only):

#newmonster 2867
#spr1 ""
#spr2 ""
#copystats 1071
#name "Hassan"
#descr "Old Man of the Mountain himself"
#hp 10
#size 2
#prot 0
#mor 11
#mr 16
#enc 3
#str 10
#att 11
#def 14
#prec 11
#mapmove 2
#ap 13
#gcost 300
#rcost 1
#armor "Turban"
#armor "Desert Garb"
#weapon Poison dagger
#magicskill 8 3 ---2?
#magicskill 7 2
#magicskill 4 2
#magicskill 5 2
#holy
#stealthy 20
#ambidextrous 4
#domsummon 2830
#domsummon20 2837
#wastesurvival
#mountainsurvival
#incunrest 10 ---?
#goodleader
#poormagicleader
#poorundeadleader
#startage 200
#maxage 160
#end


#newmonster 2868
#spr1 ""
#spr2 ""
#copystats 333
#name "Abd al al-Hazred"
#descr "That the man is mad, even himself wouldn't disagree. However, he has
an affinity to summoning and communing with genies of the most unusual kind.
This makes him somewhat useful to rulers and sorcerers, though most times his
answers are understood only by himself. He is said to going to write a book
which would summarize the wisdom he has gleaned, but whether or not it would
be actually useful is not known even by the wisest..."
#clearmagic
#hp 9
#size 2
#prot 0
#mor 13
#mr 19
#enc 3
#str 9
#att 8
#def 9
#prec 10
#mapmove 2
#ap 13
#gcost 0
#rcost 1
#armor "Turban"
#armor "Desert Garb"
#weapon fist
#weapon 367 --- Horror mark
#magicskill 4 3
#magicskill 7 3
#magicskill 1 2
#magicskill 5 2 ---?
#fear
#horrormark
#researchbonus 5
#douse 2
#magicbeing
#wastesurvival
#incunrest 8
#goodmagicleader
#okundeadleader
#end

[elmokki]

Originally Posted by Wrana

Sorry for being late - those were my hashishiines.
I think they should be sacred, even if they won't probably be blessed often. However, it may be fixed through #onebattlespell...

Yeah. I gave a thought for it, but I ended up just having them as pretty much standard assassins (well, they have hauberk instead of cuirass, no leather hood, wasteland survival, and a second poison dagger instead of a short sword)

I might change my mind though, but I feel that this nation has quite a lot of interesting stuff already. If I end up making an LA version, it'll have a hashashin for sure though. I really want to make a version of this nation that can summon ghuls (and nasnas, if I end up making them, though I reckon literal half-humans will mostly be a novelty unit) without problem.

[quote]Considering your troops I think that it's better to replace (or add to) militia with bedhouin raiders who come only for loot - a widely used practice which survived until Ottoman times. I made those average quality lightly armed infantry and horsemen which fight only one battle just like Ermor gladiators (using #copystats, of course). They may be used as either attack force in early game, or as chaff later.[quote]
A pretty good idea actually. I don't really like the militia anyway and was thinking of scrapping it along with the lancer.

(Also, we made many troops using improved robes for armor, adding also turban and turbaned helm). Another thing I did was including both light stealthy troops and corsairs. Light raiders fought on foot but used horses for faster movement - thus Move 3.

I think improved robes would go for EA version of this nation (if even there). I do like the look of light armor anyway

Another thing I consider important is particularly good horses providing faster movement - this also giving a better offense to light lancers you seem having some small problem with (these are Arabic horses, so heavy Ghulams do not have them)...

I did think of faster horses along with the lower morale for all basic troops. I just came to conclusion that this isn't real life and faster horses isn't THE thing arabs are known for (though I do agree sheikhs who own horses is in top 10 of things that come to mind for me) nor is undisciplined armies. I still have the beduins morale 9 though, since they're supposed to be more undisciplined.

As for camels per se I just gave them a supply bonus. Camel troops can be made better if you consider that early Muslim armies used camels to transport their archers up to 4 per camel (I'd made just 2) and arrows for them. So, I propose to include a new "camel bow" (or somesuch) with unit description mentioning additional arrows and give camel archers 2 such attacks. Combined with animal awe, it would be quite good, I think. Another possible summon is cheetah.

Did they use more than one archer per camel in combat though? Atleast it'd look a bit silly with a dromedar.

Supply bonus is something to think about (though especially with the possible scrapping of lancer the heavier camel cavalry is actually quite a good unit, the archer less so.)

Cheetah is tempting as is rhino, but they'd go to nature and nature isn't a path I'm intending to give to (MA) al-Nadim.

As for commanders, I included also "Baghdad thieves" as spies. Another type you seem to forgot is khadi - judge (thus patrol bonus) and low-level priest. Higher level capital-only priest can be named Hoji.

I certainly won't be adding new priests without a really good reason (seeing that the nation already has 3, none of which is a mage with some priestly like with for example Marignon), but if you think khadi and hoji are better names for current mullah and imam (naturally with added patrol bonus) I'll look into it.

Mystics are good and I also thought that alchemists should be also researchers. I made another mage's type - sorceress with Nature and Air magic, as these are often mentioned in tales. I thought about making some access for Buried in Sand for these nations as it's thematic, but am not sure.

As tempted as I am to add new mages, I think I really can't increase the amount of diversity (F3, W3, S2, E2 are currently rather easy to get and A2 and E3 aren't that rare (6.25% for an alchemist) either). Sorceress would probably go to EA or possibly LA.

As for genies I think you don't need to go for Marids as "water genies". Actually, the name came from something with sense like "infidel" (actually, various genie names were often used interchangebly, but that's another story). So I decided that while all EA genies are sacred, by MA some choose to follow the Prophet and other choose not to. The former became "faithful jihn" - sacred, including both troops and mage-commanders (male and female, with different magic), while the latter became "marids" - non-sacred, but their commanders are stronger mages (troops would be either absent or easier to summon).

I can add my opinion on genie races if you want to make a common work, but I must warn you that this is mostly based on Persian sources.

The information of djinn in the internet seemed to really vary. Along with that Dungeons & Dragons crap - they invented a genie for each element.

I know the djinns aren't very exclusively of a particular element (even though many places do associate ifrit with fire and marid with water) and I'll sure give the more powerful versions of them some magic variance. I do quite like having them both as sacred and somewhat specialized even though having marids non-sacred isn't a bad idea. In any case we could just say that there's no prophet of Islam-equivalent in Dominions universe and keep the djinn as sacred beings of an earlier era

What certainly should be included is a spell summoning genies to build a palace!

A really good idea. I think I read genies lived in a city of brass (I have no clue how "true" that is, but sounds cool as hell), so a "Palace of Brass" would be a pretty cool spell.

[the Vanishag]

I'm looking forward to giving this mod a try - I'll post notes afterward, time permitting.

[mehrunes_dagon]

elmokki, will you please replace all backward slashes to forward slashes in .dm file, to let linux/macos playtesters join windoze p[laytesters in playtestin

ps Summary/briefin is jagged and partially unreadable on my computer due to lots of spaces you inserted

[elmokki]

I finally bothered to make an update. I forgot to fix the nation summary text, but it can wait.

The balance changes should be somewhat drastic.

With scimitars losing a point of defence pretty much all units lose one point of defence and along with their other nerf dervishes are losing a total of 3 defence. This might be a bit drastic, but playtesting will show if dervishes need their base defence 3 back or if the scimitars need their defence back.

Making Grand Viziers capital only fits very well thematically, as the nation should be somewhat centered on the Bejeweled City. From a game balance viewpoint this gave the normal viziers a need for buff, which +1F should do fine. I deemed the gold cost reduction of the mystics a must for anyone to actually recruit them. Still, at 90 gold they might be slightly too cheap, especially as they are not supposed to be communion slaves for the grand viziers. Alchemists should be more interesting now, as a player has to decide if he wants a powerful priest, a powerful battle mage or a powerful researcher/magic diversifier from his capital each turn.

But well, playtest and tell me what you think. My goal is to make al-Nadim balanced enough to be a viable multiplayer nation.

0.85
- Fixed the djinn summons.
- Made the djinn summons more expensive and slightly higher (4, 5 and 8 from 3, 4 and 7) on the conjuration tree.
- Made Grand Vizier capital only
- Gave +1 Fire to Vizier and +20 gold to price (now 140 gold)
- Made mystic cheaper (was 120 gold, now 90 gold)
- Lowered dervish base defence (13 -> 12)
- Moved a point of defence from scimitar to damage (from 5-1-1-2 to 6-1-0-2)
- Changed \ to / so penguin people can play too!

File itself is available at the first post.

In other news, if I bother to make a LA al-Nadim, it will most definately be less Ottoman Empire and more lovecraftian than I first thought.

[Jack_Trowell]

Good Mod, just a few things I notices :

- Camel archers seems overpriced : while it's good having access to composite bows, it does not justify a cost 5 times higher that a base archer.
Don't forget that the increased defense that they get from being a mounted unit will usually not be used at all, and their low protection make them easy targets for ennemy archers.

At least you didn't crippled them as archers by giving them poor precision like in vanilla. (too bad one of the few things dominions is bad at is simulating the importance of archer cavalry, if only there were a "fire and move back" order for those units ...)

I think that 30 gold, or maybe 25 would be more appropriate for such units, as even ith good mobility and above average precision, they're still ligh armored archers.

- in the descriotion of the nation and viziers, you mention air magic as somthing they are good at, while it should be water magic from what I can see.

[elmokki]

After quite a break a new version is up at the first post.

0.86
- Made slight changes to province defence. It's still weak, but I reckon that suits the nation quite well with the capital centric backstory and nomadic ways of life et cetera.
* Mullah replaced Commander as the <20 cost commander. It's mostly a backstory change, as mullahs are supposed to be not only a religious but also an adminstrative authority. Mullah will die to slight archer fire easier, but he's a level 1 priest.
* Gave 1 Al-Nadim Archer per province defence point <20 in addition to the 2 militias of old
* Made >20 province defence give a Vizier. The other choice would've been a Commander, but it felt a bit boring.
* Instead of 2 spear armed Al-Nadim Infantry per province defence, it's now 1 spear and 1 scimitar.
- Fixed the nation description to tell correct magic paths. It's still strangely wrapped though. Need to look into it again later.
- Made Camel Archers cheaper 50g -> 25g
- Gave both camel units "Camel Bite" instead of the 2 damage bite. There seemed to be no proper original bites and the old one didn't have #nostr. Currently it's 10/1/0/3 #nostr #bonus weapon, which basically is a bite of a lizard mount with -33% damage.

Now, the thing is, I was thinking of making an another mod, but that was mostly about my obsession to the coolness of bagpipes and kilts and claymores, and I thought I'd better finish Al-Nadim before I go make a mod about that. British Isles are pretty well covered already anyway

I've got a few questions about the balancedness of this mod and I'd like to hear answers of someone who isn't me.

First of all, the province defence. It was really weak and is still very weak. Should it be stronger? I could scrap the militia unit as a whole and make <20 PD 1 archer 1 spear infantry per point and >20 1-1.5 scimitar infantry 0.5-1 beduin raider per point. Currently it's 2 miltia 1 archer <20 and 1 spear infantry 1 scimitar infantry >20. Personally I like the idea of it being weak, but is it too weak?

Secondly, the commanders. Is there something that's lacking or something that should definately be removed? Of the non-priest or mage commanders I know absolutely none will almost ever be hired apart from assassin and beduin chieftain. All except Mubarizun Commander and Assassin are pretty much essential to the theme of the nation though. I don't feel like they're worthless of existing in the mod. Assassin has it's niche and isn't really something that is making the nation too powerful, so I believe it has earned it's right to exist too. Mubarizun commander on the other hand is capital only and will have to be such, which is also why it'll be never recruited.

Mages and priests are always a huge problem. Are the mages and priests too expensive or too cheap? Is there too much magic diversity? I personally am unsure about Mystic - 1S1H stealthy (+25 once I fix it) spy at 90g. It feels a bit cheap compared to 1S stealthy LA Ulm Illuminated one at 70g, but I doubt it'd really be hired much if it was considerably more expensive. Magic diversity bugs me too. While I'm pretty happy with only Mystics (1S1H) and Viziers (2F1W and 110% FWES) being available outside the capital and Grand Vizier (2F2W1S 110% FWES) being available in capital, capital only Alchemist (1E 210% FAES) bothers me a bit. It gives you a somewhat realible access to 3E, 2A and 2W. I don't really know if that's too much. One thing which I'm thinking is removing the guaranteed 1E from the Alchemist, but it'll still leave Al-Nadim with quite decent access to all elemental magic.

I'm quite happy with the non-commander units. Everything has it's niche atleast thematically if not game technically. Mubarizuns are a kick-*** but capital only heavy infantry. I'm tempted to tone them down slightly (attack and defence 13 to 12), but in general they feel pretty fine as long as they are capital only. I don't feel like there's anything I should definately remove except maybe militia, nor that there's anything I should definately add. I still do have the graphics for a heavier lance armed cavalry for Al-Nadim (supplied with the mod and defined in the mod by the way), but I think it's cooler of the camels fill the cavalry slot. In general I find the non-sacred troops solid but nothing really spectacular. Camel Cavalry price might need tuning though. It doesn't feel like it's a very strong unit.

Even after a nerf Dervish still makes me wonder. It's recruitable everywhere and with a bless a swarm of them can be really devastating. On the other hand they'll drop like flies to any missile troops or anything that can actually outnumber them enough to punch through their defence even after the massive losses they're likely to take. They will definately stay as recruit everywhere, but do they need a cost increase or nerf?

Also, in general, is Al-Nadim missing something or is something wrong? I do want to make this nation balanced and interesting. I personally like the heroes very much.

I do know Al-Nadim only has the skeleton supply of pretender chassises available. How do I add more of the existing ones to the list? Atleast some of the fire orientated pretenders need to be there.

[Wrana]

I'd definitely remove militia as such. While Middle East states often levied common citizens as defensive troops, they were not completely untrained and often got some moderate to good equipment - I'd say something more like Bogarus lesser troops than common militia. I'd still think raiders would be more thematic.
As for other comments I'll try to test it in a few days,
Keep up the good work!