Danish TO & E

[DRG]

It represents an infantry unit carrying a 51mm mortar. If the Danish Home Guard was equipped with 51mm mortars as standard weaponry between 1946 and 1953 and were integrated into standard Infantry units then yes maybe it's the Danish Home Guard but if not it's simply a normal everyday (hvy)infantry unit that used that mortar until early 1953 and why the platoons and companies change in March 1953 after they are taken OOS

Don

[Mobhack]

And given the 10 hex range, it is likely a local name for ex-British 2 inch mortar.

And the main unit using it appears as one section in a platoon (formation 196, used in coy 195) - echoing the UK practice of issuing one per platoon HQ as a pyrotechnics discharger (smoke and illum) rather than as an HE chucker (2" HE being available but rarely issued in practice).

Andy

[Palle]

Ah, my wording was bad. I meant the Militia Hv. Infantry.

I ask because I have loads of experience in the Danish Home Guard and could probably make a more accurate TO & E if you want me to. Or at least provide a list that you can use for inspiration (you know my penchant for details that may be irrelevant for the game, so you do the sorting) or not. But it would require me to dig out all my old papers to confirm my foggy memories.

Actually, I will be pleased to do so. No other plans than relaxation tonight anyway and it will bring out fond memories of preparing for the WAPA to come for us.

[DRG]

Originally Posted by Palle

Ah, my wording was bad. I meant the Militia Hv. Infantry.

Which is WHY we have a error reporting procedure posted and had that been followed I would have known which units and which formations you were referring to instead of guessing what you meant by "Hv" while I'm in the middle of sorting out issues with rocket launchers in 12 different OOB's.

If everyone would BE CLEAR AND CONCISE in reporting "issues" time ( I DO NOT have to spare in abundance ) would not be wasted "guessing".


Don

[Palle]

Well, as it is now, Formation 060 of the Danish OOB is a company of Infantry.

It consists of:
-One Unit 184 - Heavy Infantry Group (Militia)
-Three Formation 037 - Heavy Infantry Platoon, each again consisting of 3 Unit 186 - Heavy Infantry Group (Militia)

I assume this represents the 550 Danish Home Guard Companies spread all over. But the unit I served in in from 1988 till... well till now... is somewhat different. I shall try and elaborate a bit here. You may let yourself inspire as you see fit. The period I know best is the one from 1988 till about 2000. As my peak of activity was 1988 to 1997.

Let us start by establishing that The Danish Home Guard is a manyfacetted organisation and was so even more in the past, especially right after WWII when it was basically the Resistance continuing under another name. But I shall try and keep my description simple.

1. The Home Guard are volunteers serving because they have the will to defend their country; I shall never forget old Vagn who remembered 9th of April and was active with us young hotspurs exactly because of that as long as he could walk on every single maneuver. They are generally highly motivated, but have little actual experience as all training and learning is evening and weekends only; except special courses which usually takes a week. That being said every single Home Guard Company has a wide variety of soldiers; from old men unfit for anything but observation (one of the main tasks to young hotspurs and a lot of veterans of the Army (who will usually be mustered back to their regiments in case of war after a week or two with the Home Guard who musters before the actual Army).

2. The Home Guard at that time had more weapons available than depicted in Unit 190. We also often used m72 (66mm LAW), until about 2000 and every Home Guard Company had between 1 and 6 (mostly it was 2) M66 Sniper Rifles (a modified version of the G3).

3. The Home Guard harbours Engineers, Snipers (not just Marksmen, but proper snipers, trained to operate in the group (mostly), alone or as a team of 2; I was one for a few years after I stopped as a group leader, and working alone) and dogs. The assault effect mirrors the engineer and the dogs probably cannot be (they are quite far between anyway. Back then with more companies there were one in every fourth or so). There were at least one sniper in each company.

4. A standard Home Guard Company was organised as follows:
-Command Platoon; consisting of the Command Group, Signals Group, Supply Group and Support/food-supply Group.
- 1st Platoon, consisting of a command troop and 2-4 Grps (usually 2 in peacetime)
-2nd Platoon, same.
-Reserve, Men of 50+ would be in the reserve used only for guard duties and surveillance (except old Vagn), men of 60+ only for surveillance (except old Vagn). In case of war, these would be formed into groups and join the active parts of the Company. Taking the larger part of the responsibility for the Guard and Surveillance duties to free the more combat-ready groups for combat and help keeping them supplied.

5. The Company would have 4- 6 vans, either the Army's VW-Transporters or Civilian requested ones. My dad had volunteered all those of his carpentry firm in case of war.

6. Each infantry group would carry 5 x 20 shots for every G3, 500- 1000 shots for the LMG (MG3), 4 grenades for the Carl Gustav and one hand grenade each as standard. Group Leader would always have a radio.


Some companies would also have special units. My group of young and very dedicated men became a special Company-, then District- Response Group and we would sometimes be granted SEP status unofficially (hence without the cool gear), SEP was the Home Guard's Special Recon Force who worked with the LOPKESKs, Frømændskorpset and Jægerkorpset. Today SEP is called SSR. They worked independently, we worked through Company and district, but would be a patrol. Depending on tasks we would sometimes ditch the heavy Carl Gustav and bring an extra LMG or a couple of lighter m72 instead. The Sniper of 1st Platoon was also in my group and we trained at least 20 hours every week. And that is just an example.


Anyway. How would that be reflected in the game?

First I propose a +5 Morale and -5 Experience (unless that evens out?) to the Home Guard Units. Generally speaking, we were very well motivated indeed, but we lacked experience. Except SEP, who should probably have +5 in both.

Secondly, the Company would best be reflected in the following OOB:
- Command Section (FO like in the new LOPKESKs?)
- 2 Supply Canisters (if includable in the Comp, though I know Don does not want it), it should be canisters as we only had small arms ammo.
- 4 Lt trucks or even Technicals/vans from the Green/Red OOB.
- 2 crappy infantry groups of old men with G3s and LMGs, no Carl Gustav.
- MMG group.
- Possibly two Scout Groups, but they would have to be pulled from the two other platoons' manpower, taking an infantry section from one of those.

-1st Platoon Cmdr (FO)
- 1st Group, decent infantry on par with regular professional Danish army; with LMG and Carl Gustav. Possibly a Marksman as well.
- 2nd Group, Militia with LMG and Carl Gustav.
- 3rd Grp, crappy militia from the reserve and with no Carl Gustav, possibly m72 though. Used for guard duty of vital areas and Plt HQ.
-If no Marksman in 1st Group, add a sniper.

2nd Platoon is the same, except possibly with no decent group, usually a sniper there as well.

It is now 04.00 I will experiment a bit tomorrow to see what is possible. Whatever you wish to include (even if it is none), will make me happier. It looks a bit more like the varied service I know so well. Though it has changed again with the regular army spending all its energy in Helmand. The Home Guard has actually taken over the real local defence now (whereas before we would guard the army's mobilisation, survey and observe and parts of us would be making pinpricks against an expected massive WAPA invasion, then start partisan actions if overrolled, and a number of companies have been changed to and trained as Motorised Infantry.

Thanks for your time Don, sorry to be so convoluted. I hope it is at least clear what units I am talking about in the first place.

[Firestorm]

Wow, thanks for this thread, Palle. Denmark does indeed have an impressive and under-appreciated military.

Some of the information is irrelevant to the game itself, but I'm currently writing a story that includes several characters in the Danish military, so if you don't mind, I'd like to keep you on call.

Regarding old equipment still on the buy lists: I always thought that represented a nation's war stores-- stuff they've officially phased out, but still keep in storage in the event that something bad happens. Many nations keep equipment from the last decade or so in mothballs just in case it's ever needed*, those with lots of available space will keep them even longer, and uber-packrats like the Russians and Israelis probably still have leftovers from the Second World War.

The United States military didn't get rid of it's last M-1903 Springfields until the Cold War ended. Wouldn't surprise me if there was still a crate of them left and forgotten in some government building out on the barren prairies of North Dakota.

*or perhaps because such weaponry is still too dangerous to sell, too valuable to scrap and too old to use

[Palle]

The Danes that have decided to be soldiers have always been good at it. WWII was a disgrace to many (the ignorants who did not know the political situation in the 30-ies here), yet the most decorated foreigner in English service during that disgrace was Danish SBS member Anders Lassen.

Anyways, many saw 9th of April as a disgrace and despite various socialist opposition and NATO Footnotes, the core of the Danish Military after WWII was highly motivated and professional. Many civilians looked down on us a bit and thought that a Defence was a waste of time and money, including some politicians. Though our colleagues in other NATO countries knew better. They still had to wonder why the pascifist, lazy and often critical Danish draftees would consistently do well in maneuvres, etc..

And in "Operation Bøllebank" everybody's eyes were suddenly opened to the fact that we have a highly competent military. The secret is the general high level of education and encouragement of independent thinking permeating Danish society; including the army. It is the way we are, we think for ourselves, and the armed forces have conveniently adapted the German WWII doctrine that every one knows the plan and can carry it out and everyone is encouraged to think for themselves to actually solve their tasks. The armed forces have had to, for that is how Danes are, so best exploit that trait. We often used to joke that the points of the Chevrons pointed at the most important weapon of that nation's armed forces; the Danish ones pointed up- towards the head, most others' pointed down- towards the feet.

I rant, but I like our military.

One that usually does not mothball equipment, but sells it back to the original producer, BTW. There is very little old equipment lying around here.

Anyway, feel free to catch me here or on FB; I tend to sometimes disappear from game fora for months. And I have the redoubtable Lars R. Møller on my friends list as well as Lars Ulslev Johannesen, who led 1st LOPKESK in Musa Quala.

[Palle]

I fiddled a bit with it and eventually created a new Company.

-FO Team 385 Commander
-Lt Truck/2 1123
-Lt Truck/2 1123
-HJV Reserve Grp - (new unit, see below)
-HJV Reserve Grp - (new unit, see below)
-M62 MMG Section 301
-HJV Platoon a - (new unit, see below)
-HJV Platoon b - (new unit see below)

>Available 1/49 to 12-120 (The Home Guard proper was only formed and organised into companies in 1949).

-----------------
HJV Platoon a
-FO Team 385
-HJV Ptrl (New Unit, see below)
-HV Infantry Group 190
-HJV Reserve

--------------------
HJV Platoon b
-FO Team 385
-Sniper 370
-HV Infantry Group 190
-HJV Reserve

Both these platoons are available from 1-79 to 12-100.

----------------------

*HJV Reserve Group
Basically a HV Infantry Group 190 with no Carl Gustav and only 10 hand grenades (as that was our allotment). In order to reflect their reserve status and distinguish them from the Units 184- 191 in the pick list I have classed them as 75 - Irregulars.
>Available 1 of 79 to 12 of 110.

*HJV Patrol
Basically a 5 man patrol reflecting the Scouting-Commando and Special Response Teams of the Home Guard, it does not really capture both. But it is my best bid. Even SEP is not the Jægerkorps, so the Jæger patrols cannot reflect them adequately. Hence this new one.
>Available 1-79 to 12-100
Cost 30, Crew 5, LBM 98, Speed 6, Radio 70, Vision 10 (could be 0 but some of us bought NV ourselves).
Weapon 9 - M75, 11 - M62 LMG, M72 LAW (2 shots), Sniper Rifle (50 shots, the M66 is an improved version of the M75 and our snipers carried 100 shots like the rest of us).
Classification 85 Light Commandos.

[Palle]

Time to fiddle with a campaign where the Glasnost and Perestrojka fail and the Polish strikes lead to Soviet intervention and WWII I think.

[Palle]

just did a test autumn 1988 Danish Delay vs Polish Advance with 1150 Pts for the Danes (which they spent on a HJV Cmp and Inf Cmp, 2 120mm mortars, 2 ammo canisters and a Centurion 5 TD). Worked fine and almost exactly as expected, and ended in a Draw.

Going to start making maps for a Campaign...