Repel attempt bonuses

[Teraswaerto]

Jotun giants have their own weapons. A Jotun spear is length 5, for example. Magical weapons don't scale to wielder size though, nor would it make much sense, since the gem cost is always the same and a Hoburg can wield the the same weapon as a Niefel Jarl.

[Saber Cherry]

The way I modelled it in the simulator, which I'm pretty sure corresponds to the game, is like this:

A unit with a short weapon attacks a unit with a longer weapon. The following stuff happens, in this order:

ATTACK

If the weapon requires ammo (like a lance) and is out of ammo, the attack ends.

If the enemy has awe and the attacker fails the awe roll, the attack ends.

The enemy makes a repel attempt, and if successful, the attack ends.

If the attacker is no longer alive or awake after the repel attempt, the attack ends (repel attempts can kill or knock out the opponent with fatigue).

Now, the attacker gets to actually attack:

Ammo is reduced by 1 for weapons that use ammo.

The weapon gets one strike at the enemy per "hit". In other words, a flail has 2 hits and gets 2 strikes, but is only affected by 1 repel attempt.

Each strike, successful or not, lowers the enemy defense by 1 for the rest of the round.

REPEL ATTEMPT

The enemy attempts to repel with its longest weapon. This weapon cannot be ranged and cannot use ammo (like a lance), and it must be longer than the attacker's current weapon.

The enemy makes an attack roll versus the attacker's defense. If this fails, the repel attempt ends.

The attacker makes a morale save. If he fails, the repel attempt ends successfuly - the attacker loses his attack.

Otherwise, the attacker attacks anyway. So the enemy takes a strike at the attacker, calculated using the strike routine (a new attack and defense roll), but physical damage is capped at 1. A multi-hit weapon like a flail used in a repel only gets 1 hit.

Note that repel attempt strikes do not cause a defense loss like normal attacks do.

STRIKE

Attacker's attack roll minus enemy's defense roll must be greater than 0, or the attack fails.

If the enemy is ethereal, the attacker must pass an ethereality roll (25% chance, unless he is using a magic weapon) or the attack fails.

If the enemy is lucky, the attacker must pass a luck roll (50%).

In this case, the attacker gets to do damage, equal to the damage roll minus the enemy's protection roll. HOWEVER... if this is a repel strike, the maximum damage is 1.

If the damage is 1 or greater, the attack was a success, and additional damage (paralyze, poison, and fatigue) are added.


....

....

....so, does all that make sense? As far as I can tell, repel attempts can only do 1 physical damage, but they can still do the full poison, fatigue, paralyze, soul-slay, or whatever else kind of damage. So I like to use long, poisoned weapons=) And repel attempts are affected by luck, etheriality, armor-piercing, and attack rating (high attack = better repel chance). A high damage or armor-piercing or magic weapon will typically be more likely to do damage in a repel attempt... but the damage will still be capped at 1 unless the weapon has special effects.

[ December 30, 2003, 20:36: Message edited by: Saber Cherry ]

[SurvivalistMerc]

Teraswearto,

I agree that magical weapons don't scale to size...but reach is affected by size.

Does the typical repel attempt try to hit the attacker in the hand? Or to injure the attacker at other locations, such as where the armor might be weakest?

I would contend that a giant weilding the same weapon should be able to deal with repel attempts better than a shorter creature due to his better reach. And I have never finished a game as Jotunheim. They aren't my favorite nation, and I'm not exactly biased in their favor.

[Saber Cherry]

Originally posted by SurvivalistMerc:
I would contend that a giant (wielding) the same weapon should be able to deal with repel attempts better than a shorter creature due to his better reach.

Hmmm... yessss... a bonus to weapon length based on unit size would make sense. A Jotun with a dagger should be able to repel a Hoburger with a dagger, for example. Except that he'd have to bend over a bit

[SurvivalistMerc]

Saber Cherry,

Are you sure that luck and etherealness aren't factored in at the time of the repel attack roll? That would make the most sense to me in that the repel can't work unless it "hits," and these attributes really affect what "hits."

[Chris Byler]

Hmm, if repel attempts do trigger special weapon abilities I have a sudden urge to repel with a Heart Finder Sword or Elf Bane. Unfortunately neither is particularly long, so maybe a Demon Whip, Vine Whip, Bane Blade (2-h), Thorn Spear, or if I have the construction and gems, Trident from Beyond.

[Saber Cherry]

Originally posted by SurvivalistMerc:
Saber Cherry,

Are you sure that luck and etherealness aren't factored in at the time of the repel attack roll? That would make the most sense to me in that the repel can't work unless it "hits," and these attributes really affect what "hits."

The way I set it up, ethereal and lucky take effect at the time of the strike.

Therefore, for an ethereal, lucky attacker:

Being ethereal or lucky do not affect whether or not a repel attempt occurs. They do not affect whether the repel attempt is successful (meaning no attack). However, they DO affect whether the repel attempt does any damage, and associated poison, etc. So an ethereal, lucky unit is just as likely to be repelled, but if it is not repelled, it is only 1/8th as likely to take damage or be poisoned. However, ethereal units generally have very high morale so they almost never get repelled.

For an ethereal, lucky defender:

Being ethereal or lucky do not affect whether or not a repel attempt occurs. They do not affect whether the repel attempt is successful (meaning no attack). An ethereal/lucky unit gets a defense penalty from being attacked, just like a normal unit, regardless of whether the attack hits or misses. So they only affect the chance of being damaged by the attack, and nothing else.

Again, I'm not sure this is correct, but that's what I get from the manual. Anyway, repel attempts are only successful if they [/i]don't[/i] hit=) A repel attempt that hits and does damage is unsuccessful; a successful repel attempt simply scares off the opponent. I agree that the attacker should be less likely to be scared off if he is lucky, ethereal, and has heavy armor, but according to the manual, only the attacker's defense rating and morale (and the defender's attack rating) affect the success of a repel attempt.

[Saber Cherry]

Originally posted by Chris Byler:
Hmm, if repel attempts do trigger special weapon abilities

I can't imagine why they wouldn't, except by oversight. It specifically says in descriptions like Elf Bane's that "The slightest scratch..." can kill. And poisoned weapons are poisoned for precisely that reason...

When I was playing with an SC cyclops, I gave him a thorn spear for repel purposes, and it worked quite nicely=) I don't think anything Lasted long enough to die from poison, though.

By the way, if you want to see enemies pop like pocorn from repels, use a Medusa pretender and send it against an indy province with lots of militia. Funny! =) Though I'm not certain that the medusa gaze is actually modelled as a repel attempt.

[Taqwus]

Careful about mocking the Hoburgs. Perhaps it's time to create a Hoburg Champion wearing Monolith Armor (!) and Winged Shoes, wielding a Gate Cleaver.