Okay what I was
trying to get at was that OUR idea of "Utopia" is not necessarily THEIR idea of Utopia because it's two different cultures with two totally different and mutually exclusive forms of gvernment.
They are not going to see Utopia as the fluffy bunny way we see it they are going to look at our view and say exactly what I wrote. That it's a selfish ideal where people are pretty much going after a Utopia without having to do any work for it, or work after they get their Utopia.
Remember Icarans are a work oriented people and laziness is seen with disgust and to them a "Utopia" where work is barely required is hardly a Utopia at all because to them it would be a life without much purpose. Just sitting and meditating on the flufiness of the world is not their way of viewing things.
And look at what we consider "Utopia" it's pretty much the Star Trek Federation that we all first look too and if you REALLY look at the Federation it's a Communist power block where it's "Do what we say and follow the party line or your booted out." And where Religions of any form are scorned as being obsolete and out of a barbaric past that should be forgotten. And yet we call
this a Utopia, because people are "enlightened" (in other words pansified) and because they are pretty much allowed to do whatever they want as long as it conforms to Star Trek morality (which seems to be almost non-existant considering they think nothing of getting a woman pregnant and then leaving)
I mean what we call a Utopia can never
truely exist because as a wise man once said "Utopia can only work after everyone is dead." and though kind of harsh sounding it's true because Utopia would require everyone WANTING a fluffy society where Peace, Love and Enlightenment rule and where "we ain't gonna make war no more".
Your right Icara is NOT a Utopia but it is also not a hellish regime that opresses it's people or treats them like the 1984 "Big Brother" would.
Now on to your points of a Distopia
:
* A hierarchical society where divisions between the upper, middle and lower class are definitive and unbending
(Icara does not have a caste system at all and I honestly don't know where you got that, yes they have a nobility but this is not a
caste that can not change in fact new nobles are added for any new province. Nobles are also stripped of rank if they break the law and a new noble is chosen to replace them.)
* A nation-state ruled by an upper class with few democratic ideals - Nope no democracy, they also never HAD democracy as a choice nor would their society see it as viable after millenia of Praetorian society.
* State propaganda programs and educational systems that coerce most citizens into worshipping the state and its government, in an attempt to convince them into thinking that life under the regime is good and just. - Uh sound like any country where they want you to think they are good and just?
And on the flipside Icara's legal system IS JUST as everyone is answerable to the justice system including the government officials. They are also pretty good as they take care of their population better then any modern government.
* Strict conformity among citizens and the general assumption that dissent and individuality are bad. -They never said individuality is bad they are just as individualistic as we are except that they are aware that they may have to sacrifice that for the good of the community around them.
I know this sounds contradictory but think about it a soldier has to give up "individuality" to serve the government, so do police because they have to be willing ot put themselves in the line of fire to protect others. This is basically just the standard war Icarans are raised, if it comes down to YOU or OTHERS you should die instead of OTHERS (Others being plural) as one man is less important then five or ten or more.
So yes they are individuals in their every day life they are just raised with a "them first" instead of a "me first" attitude.
And uh I also hate to break it to you El_Phil just about EVERY country views dissidents poorly or else we wouldn't call them dissidents we'd call them by a nicer name
* A state figurehead that people worship fanatically through a vast personality cult, such as 1984’s Big Brother, We‘s The Benefactor, or Equilibrium‘s Father. - They don't "worship" him as in praying and stuff they aren't catholic yah know. A saint by a "mainstream" Christian viewpoint is someone to be trusted and respected but
not worshipped. They also view God as higher then the Praetor and don't see him AS GOD.
*A fear or disgust of the world outside the state - Not a big fan of xenos are they?
Your argument there is slightly flawed as in they are not afraid or disgusted by Xenos simply because they are "the outside world" they are disgusted by them because they are NON-HUMAN and are for the most part not even [b]humanoid[/i] so yeah they are a bunch of specists we figured that out already
in fact I sort of stated that in their very first encounter with an alien.
Other Human societies are simply seen as something that needs to be incorporated for the good of humanity.
So in a way you
could twist it to say they embrace the outside world
* A common view of traditional life, particularly organized religion, as primitive and nonsensical complete domination by a state religion, e.g Death-Worship in the Eastasia of 1984 - I'm sorry your TOTALLY off here and btw that very statement is Contradictory as "organized religion" is being primitive and non-sensical and yet having a "state religion" notice what I'm saying here?
They are if anything ultra-traditionalists who follow an organized religion and encourage others to, the Pastors are not controlled by the state or state officials by any means.
* The "memory" of institutions overriding or taking precidence over human memory- Could you explain what this means?
* A penal system that lacks due process laws and often employs psychological or physical torture- Not torture though they do cain minor criminals to just keep them from having to go to jail for long periods of time.
* Constant surveillance by government or other agencies
militarized police forces and private security forces - How else do the shadow daggers know what's going on
Yeah pretty much here I have to agree with you the Shadow daggers do watch high priority individuals not EVERYONE though.
* Insistence by the forces of the establishment that
it provides the best of all possible worlds that all problems are due to the action of its enemies and their dupes- Nope this doesn't fit either.
Re: Semi-OT: The Icaran Empire Preview (the book o
Linear Mode
