Helheim Superpower!

[Graeme Dice]

Gandalf Parker said:
Obviously the vocal people in these forums dont reflect most players altho they might reflect a large number in these forums.

Really? You've polled a representative sampling of the population who plays the game? Or are you just making stuff up like when you tell people that commanderless troops won't rout on the first turn.

[Gandalf Parker]

Jack_Trowell said:
Do maenad start having already gone berserk ? Berserking units units usually doesn't rout even when the whole army does, it might explain ...

It does seem to be a random roll of the dice to see which side decides to rout first. Its not an absolute either way so its not a great tactic, but it does have its uses. People I have used it on have complained loudly about it and it has forced them to alter their planned strategies. It might not be a game winner, but its a game affector.

Most of my tactics tend to be more useful as an big-game ally than on a PvP small-map blitz. But it might also be that Ive never bothered testing them in those types of games so I will leave that rating of them up to people who are experienced in those types of contests.

[Graeme Dice]

Gandalf Parker said:
It does seem to be a random roll of the dice to see which side decides to rout first.

If your opponent has no commanders, which as I already explained, is not the case for anybody who has bought a single point of province defense. If they have, then the maenads rout on their first turn, every single time. After 30 turns with a single Pan in each of 10 provinces, not a single battle was won.

[Maltrease]

You know where that could still be extremely useful is if you are fighting Vanhiem or Heleheim (midly back to topic). It would actually let you see where there troops really are and what kind of forces they are building up.

I wonder if you had a harpy attack a provence the same turn the maenads spawn... one that was repeately shown to have low PD. How high of a PD you could take out? If you could make them raise it to 7+ you could then take it out with small raiding force. That might be troublesome to deal with if they have to focus their main attention elsewhere.

[alexti]

Gandalf Parker said:
Sure lets play. 1500 provinces, indepts at 9, scattered structures and monsters across the map, AI's with alliances, 25 victory points (provinces with crowns that you have to take and hold) with 20 VP needed for a win.

What you're suggesting is not Caelum vs Pangaea, but rather who takes over AI and indies first. Which is what Caelum will likely do first anyway, though it's irrelevant to the current discussion. But 1500 provinces? Either the game will crash or one of the players will die before the game ends

[Gandalf Parker]

It would be an interesting game since the map would be large enough for both nations to fully use their abilties. And its probably true that Caelum is one of the best opponents for Pangaea (much better than a head-2-head nation such as Ulm or Pythium). Some of my favorite tactics for Pandaea (and I do have others) just doesnt work well on small map games.

But yes 1500 was shooting for the extreme. In fact its the maximum number of provinces that the game presently allows. None of my 1500 games have ended yet.

Its also a very different game to generate a map with mountains at 50 which creates almost a maze of chokepoints.

And to give each province a chance of a completely random squad. It really forces a change in strategy to find a province that you HAVE to go around. Such as finding that it has a Sphinx there with Tree Lord bodyguards and Manticore troops. While the next one has a slinger leader with monolith bodyguards and turkeys as troops.

[mivayan]

Gandalf Parker said:
And to give each province a chance of a completely random squad. It really forces a change in strategy to find a province that you HAVE to go around. Such as finding that it has a Sphinx there with Tree Lord bodyguards and Manticore troops. While the next one has a slinger leader with monolith bodyguards and turkeys as troops.

That would be pretty neat to counter uber-blesses if the best sacreds weren't stealthy.

Hm. That sounded a bit nasty perhaps.

[Gandalf Parker]

It definetly creates a different game.
And makes Johan crazy when I do it.

But then he used to cringe at the random map generator in Dom2. Maybe Dom4 will see a "chaos game" option.

[alexti]

Gandalf Parker said:
It would be an interesting game since the map would be large enough for both nations to fully use their abilties. And its probably true that Caelum is one of the best opponents for Pangaea (much better than a head-2-head nation such as Ulm or Pythium). Some of my favorite tactics for Pandaea (and I do have others) just doesnt work well on small map games.

But yes 1500 was shooting for the extreme. In fact its the maximum number of provinces that the game presently allows. None of my 1500 games have ended yet.

Its also a very different game to generate a map with mountains at 50 which creates almost a maze of chokepoints.

And to give each province a chance of a completely random squad. It really forces a change in strategy to find a province that you HAVE to go around. Such as finding that it has a Sphinx there with Tree Lord bodyguards and Manticore troops. While the next one has a slinger leader with monolith bodyguards and turkeys as troops.

I don't mind strong indies with random squads. 1500 provinces will just make the game a micromanagement hell. I don't think it will be much different from 100 province duel. Distance is approximately a square root of number of provinces, so on 1500 province map the distance between the provinces will be around 19, and on 100 province map around 5. For Caelum it's just 5 turns of extra travel time. So even if Panagea goes totally defensive it adds only 5 extra turns for development. Do you want to reach any particular stage before the war starts? We could play 100 map with NAP for certain number of turns. It's actually better for your strategy if it needs time. Even on a huge map I could start raiding and attacking pretty soon. With flying scouts and troops Caelum doesn't even need a corridor to start raiding, just few step-stone provinces. And Pangaea won't even be able to counter-raid because it will take them 10+ more turns just to reach Caelum.

[HoneyBadger]

Gandalf, I definitely want to play you someday. That's just the kind of map I prefer. 1500 provinces, very high research, minimum supply, indeps at 9, victory points are fine (although I can do without them), I do like high resources, but I can do without them too, gold can be whatever. I'd be an honor to play (and be beaten by) someone with so much experience.