Mod: CPCS -- CrossPath Combat Spells

[kianduatha]

Fall of Metal and Muscle can get a pretty insane AOE already and caused a fair number of my fatalities vs. EA Ulm in Legendary Ordeals--I'm not sure it needs further buffing.

Shocking Pour definitely needs a little buff like that...I've been trying to use it(and have the perfect casters for it) but it isn't effective enough for the drawbacks it has right now.

Grip of the Marshlands if it hits friendlies definitely needs not so much a precision boost as an AOE boost--the only reason I've been using it at all has been because it doesn't hit friendlies; otherwise it's more or less inferior to Earth Grip. I shouldn't be having to seriously consider whether a W3E2 caster would be better served Earth Gripping or casting Grip of the Marshlands. AOE 2+ would probably be enough.

Steam Clouds just seems too good--specifically the damage scaling. I'll need to do some more testing on it, though. It has every indication of being way better than even Acid Rain in most fights if you can field a, say, W4F3 after buffs guy.

Oh, and Blessing of the Desert Winds is in a pretty good place right now--a nice early game boost and raiding spell, but you want to switch over to Flaming Arrows in a 'real' fight.

[Burnsaber]

Originally Posted by rdonj

If you want to make "the classic witch spell" you have to do it with E/N! Because those are the paths that witches get in game. It would be weird having that spell and witches being totally incapable of casting it.

Eh, well. Sort of true, but the independent unit "witch" is not really a "witch", more like a order of female hedge wizards who are suffering from bad PR with the peasentry. I think that units like "Nushi" fit the witch streotype better despite lacking the name. I also really could see Naiads, Capricorns, Nushi and C'tis Swampmasters (for example) casting a spell that turns people into frogs.

I'm also not really happy with the current N/W spell "Rejuvenating Waters", so replacing it with this frog spell would also give me the chance to get rid of that.

Originally Posted by rdonj

Perhaps the "bless not-sacreds" spell could #nextspell soulslay? That should be a pretty significant drawback.... I don't think it would be unreasonable either, because that can be a very powerful effect. I'd consider making the spell mr-negates too.

Now that I thought about, I really think I'll have to scrap the idea. It's just too hard to balance: If I make it "useful" with a weak bless, it will most likely be broken with a strong bless. If I only make it useful if you have a strong bless, it becomes too niche to be really useful.

Originally Posted by kianduatha

Fall of Metal and Muscle can get a pretty insane AOE already and caused a fair number of my fatalities vs. EA Ulm in Legendary Ordeals--I'm not sure it needs further buffing.

Well, I saw most of those battles with Ulm and was not really impressed, but I'll take your word for it. Since it can also be annoying because the weakness and the armor loss carries on even after the battle, leaving you with crippled units that you have to pay upkeep for.

Originally Posted by kianduatha

Shocking Pour definitely needs a little buff like that...I've been trying to use it(and have the perfect casters for it) but it isn't effective enough for the drawbacks it has right now.

Yeah, I agree. I'm kind of suprised how ineffective it proved out to be, but it seems that the RNG can be a fickle mistress with really low damage spells.

Originally Posted by kianduatha

Grip of the Marshlands if it hits friendlies definitely needs not so much a precision boost as an AOE boost--the only reason I've been using it at all has been because it doesn't hit friendlies; otherwise it's more or less inferior to Earth Grip. I shouldn't be having to seriously consider whether a W3E2 caster would be better served Earth Gripping or casting Grip of the Marshlands. AOE 2+ would probably be enough.

The frienly hits is mostly a thematic concern. After seeing it in use in combat in Ordeals, I don't see why this spell shouldn't affect friendlies while "Earth Grip" does. I'll boost the range (+5), AoE(2+) and give a small prec bonus too (+1) to compensate.

Originally Posted by kianduatha

Steam Clouds just seems too good--specifically the damage scaling. I'll need to do some more testing on it, though. It has every indication of being way better than even Acid Rain in most fights if you can field a, say, W4F3 after buffs guy.

Hmm. This is the second time I might have to nerf the spell. Perhaps I'll get rid of the scaling once and for all and just balance it against "Fire Cloud".

Originally Posted by kianduatha

Oh, and Blessing of the Desert Winds is in a pretty good place right now--a nice early game boost and raiding spell, but you want to switch over to Flaming Arrows in a 'real' fight.

Thanks, I could also use reports like this. Now I know to resist the temptation to tinker with it :P .


As for the spell I'm going to replace, I now have an diea for the new W/S spell. There currently is no way to give the "+5 def" effect from the "water shield" to troops. I'm not sure yet what the theme will be (perhaps they get blessed with the essence of water and become more agile?). But I think that making it low AoE, mr easily negates cloud that stays in the battlefield for 2 turns might be prove intresting. Probably on the enchantment tree with at least W2S1 requirement.

However, my mind is currently drawing blanks when it comes to the new D/N spell. That one is though and I remember only using the manikin idea because I just did not have any better ideas.

Any ideas anyone for some sweet D/N action?

[Sombre]

If you want good ideas for DN spells, look up magic the gathering Black/Green multicolour cards.

Basically growth + death = rot and the micro life cycle. How about a spell that can only target undead and creates a cloud of disease? Obviously disease doesn't bother undead, but you could punish someone for using mixed armies. Or a spell which drains life but gives the target regen.

[kennydicke]

If you want good ideas for DN spells, look up magic the gathering Black/Green multicolour cards.

Especially those from the Ravnica expansions - there are a lack of other instances of that color combination. But the source is definitely a good one to draw upon.

In Magic, Green/Black is almost exclusively a total destruction spell, or makes use of the sacrifice mechanic. That isn't to say dom3 has to be so limited, but it does give good insights.

You could have a spell that gives a negative buff to the caster or destroys living units (friendly or otherwise) to buff or create undead, or vice versa (destroys undead to create living units, or buff caster or living units).

Or, a cloud-type spell that similarly mixes benefit with malus (basically, Sombre's ideas).

Or, an instant death-type spell that does both normal and fatigue damage, or that is also a small-time buff, or is expensive but isn't resisted by MR, or that creates a neutral unit, etc.

Certainly, though, the taking and making of life (and unlife) are strong candidates for consideration.

[Ragnarok-X]

Astral + Death could call a Aether Pulse, small AoE instant death chance.

About Death + Nature, a low range (touch?) single target kill spell which creatures a skeleton or ghoul would work. Something like "Corrupt flesh" or something.

[Burnsaber]

Originally Posted by Ragnarok-X

Astral + Death could call a Aether Pulse, small AoE instant death chance.

Thanks for the idea, but I think I'll pass. I'm pretty happy with the current S/D spell "Gaze of Azrael". Besides, D & S both have insta-kill spells already (disintegrate/soul slay)

Originally Posted by Ragnarok-X

About Death + Nature, a low range (touch?) single target kill spell which creatures a skeleton or ghoul would work. Something like "Corrupt flesh" or something.

Thanks. IIRC, I've gotten a lot of suggestions like that in the first CPCS brainstorms, but it won't work. There is no way to mod "if" clauses. In this example, a skeleton should always be created if a unit dies by this spell. But the skeleton will always be created, even if the target makes the save. And making a insta-kill spell wihtout save is a strict no-no.

I'm working on the update and it is sort of snowballing. When I was going through the spells I noticed a lot of stuff I didn't like. Because I want this mod to be simple and to the point, I'm going to replace more spells with new ones. Here is a quick list;

OLD ---> NEW
Soul Fire (F/S) (costs gem, niche, hard to balance) ---> Celestial Flame (F1S1,low range, AP holy damage, non-elemental, boosts morale in nearby firendly units)

Mind over Matter (S/E) (costs gem, niche, takes 2 spell slots) ---> Chains of Fenrir (S1E1, low range, imprisons one target with bonds of fire + earth meld + false fetters + tangle vines)

Celestial Shield (S/A) (clunky like hell) ---> Celestial Embrace (S1A1, creates a small aoe cloud (lass 3 turns) that gives "twist fate", MR negates the effect)

Anger of God (A/S) (niche) ---> Static Bolt (A2S1, weaker lighting bolt that gives the target "Charge Body" effect)

I'll also probably figure something out to replace the "Styxian Baptism" which is suffering from a really small niche. It takes two spell slots too!

[Ragnarok-X]

Well i was suggesting the aether pulse because i was under the impression you would eventually do one low and one high level crosspath spell each. sorry.

[Frozen Lama]

Originally Posted by Burnsaber

Thanks. IIRC, I've gotten a lot of suggestions like that in the first CPCS brainstorms, but it won't work. There is no way to mod "if" clauses. In this example, a skeleton should always be created if a unit dies by this spell. But the skeleton will always be created, even if the target makes the save. And making a insta-kill spell wihtout save is a strict no-no.

didn't you have a unit in your heavy metal mod that reanimated the guys he killed? or was he actually broken and instakilled people?

[Sombre]

That's a weapon attribute. Like twin spear. Kills people into soulless.

[llamabeast]

I notice you seem to be trying to replace spells you describe as "niche". Remember that "nicheness" is generally an awesome thing as it means players get that moment where they go "aha! I have just the spell for this!". The number of niche spells is one of the things that makes dom3 so interesting.