To Write Dominion "Derived Fiction" and not Fanfiction

[Caradryan]

Sombre's got a point.

Warning: rant.

There's a difference between derived fiction and fanfiction. From my understanding (and I have little expertise in English itself), the original definition of fanfiction is defined as using canonical characters within a particular work and re-interpreting elements of the story with an overall adherence to the work as a whole.

In other words, you are limited by the definition itself when writing fanfiction.

Fanfiction on FF.net is more or less "writing whatever the hell I want." Most fanfiction I've found lack a great deal of things - in the end, they don't even make good stories to read. The few pieces of writing using established game-universes I've seen that are (in my humble opinion) good are really derived works.

Derived fiction is taking elements of a particular work and then putting the author's own creativity into it. A short story written in J.R.R. Tolkien's universe about an elf would be a derived work and not quite fanfiction, even though it uses elements found in Tolkien's work (elves, middle-earth, etc).

This is why good video game writing tend to be more of the derived fiction format, because a video game isn't meant to tell a story. Its design is to entertain. Oftentimes people praise final fantasy or whathaveyou as amazing works full of character depth, but from a writer's perspective, there's really very little for you to work with.

So, in my opinion, good writing is good writing. It doesn't matter if you use canonical characters or not, so long as there's a purpose to everything in your story. Be warned, however, that oftentimes what I consider to be good writing is considered to be unreadably boring by the contemporary 14-year-old fanfiction writers. :P

[Immaculate]

Originally Posted by raven013

@Immaculate:

Wow thanks for the link friend! Not only did you share to me some amazing works of dominion literature but you also introduced to me the great world of NES!

A million thanks my friend hehehehe!

You should post in that thread to tell the other authors you liked their story.

[raven013]

@ Caradryan:

Thats exactly what I want to write, derived fiction!

Again I apologized for the incorrect term of saying fanfiction when in fact what I want to make is derived fiction!

Thank you for finally putting a name on the term that I mixed with fanfiction!

@Immaculate:

Yes I would definitely thank them in fact thank you for reminding what I've wanted to do on that forum. I just recently made an account on that forum so I'll thank them some time this day...

thanks!

[Squirrelloid]

Even given Caradryan's point, I think its more likely Sombre is suffering from sampling bias, and has chosen to avoid (whatever you want to call it) because the odds of finding something worth reading are vanishingly small.

Most people suck as writers. Fortunately, published writing requires the writer to get someone to read it and like it, makes the writer revise the manuscript based on comments from editors, and generally improves the quality of the work. Further, he needs to have some talent or he wouldn't even get in the door. Thus, most people simply can't get published, so published literature is selectively biased towards better writers. (Now, given most published writers are not especially good and oftentimes hacks, this means that even with that high barrier to entry there's still a lot of crap that *does* get published).

Then there's 'fanfiction', or 'derived fictin' or whatever you want to call it. Any moron with a modem can post his work on the internet. Suddenly, we're awash in crap from would-be writers no one would ever publish. Further, people with actual talent don't write fanfiction - they can actually make money writing instead. So in addition to no crap filter, there's selection against good writers entering the community. Thus, the odds of finding anything redeeming amongst the veritable sea of bad fanfiction is vanishingly small, simply because the sample has not been pre-biased for quality like published writing is. It may be Raven is actually good, but statistically speaking the odds are well and truly against it.

[Foodstamp]

Originally Posted by Squirrelloid

Even given Caradryan's point, I think its more likely Sombre is suffering from sampling bias, and has chosen to avoid (whatever you want to call it) because the odds of finding something worth reading are vanishingly small.

Most people suck as writers. Fortunately, published writing requires the writer to get someone to read it and like it, makes the writer revise the manuscript based on comments from editors, and generally improves the quality of the work. Further, he needs to have some talent or he wouldn't even get in the door. Thus, most people simply can't get published, so published literature is selectively biased towards better writers. (Now, given most published writers are not especially good and oftentimes hacks, this means that even with that high barrier to entry there's still a lot of crap that *does* get published).

Then there's 'fanfiction', or 'derived fictin' or whatever you want to call it. Any moron with a modem can post his work on the internet. Suddenly, we're awash in crap from would-be writers no one would ever publish. Further, people with actual talent don't write fanfiction - they can actually make money writing instead. So in addition to no crap filter, there's selection against good writers entering the community. Thus, the odds of finding anything redeeming amongst the veritable sea of bad fanfiction is vanishingly small, simply because the sample has not been pre-biased for quality like published writing is. It may be Raven is actually good, but statistically speaking the odds are well and truly against it.

Oh that's fan fiction? I thought it was called "Forums".

[thejeff]

I don't know. I don't really think the "fan fiction" vs "derived fiction" distinction is anything like common usage, especially since this thread is the second result of a Google search on "derived fiction".
It sounds like someone not wanting to admit to writing, or reading, fanfiction, so they come up with a different name to distinguish the sub-category they like.

I'd also argue that while Sturgeon's law certainly applies and you're unlikely to find great literature as fan fiction, suggesting that anyone with actual talent won't write fan fiction because they can actually make money writing, vastly underestimates the difficulty of making a living writing. I've got a friend who's a reasonably successful writer with a dozen or so books published in the last 4 years, after years of trying to break into the industry. I make far more as a fairly low paid computer geek than she does. So I don't find it too unlikely that someone with writing talent and another career might write fan fiction as a hobby.

[LDiCesare]

Originally Posted by Squirrelloid

Further, people with actual talent don't write fanfiction - they can actually make money writing instead.

Although I generally agree with your points regarding statistics, I disagree with that particular bit. Getting published is a real pain, and a pretty long process. One has to really want to get published to do so. There are some writers who started by writing free stuff (PenOfChaos in France for instance). It was not fan fiction, though.

[raven013]

Before I start, let me just tell you that I am not a professional writer or am I an 11 year-old naruto fan. I am just a normal guy who has a passion for reading and writing works of fiction.

Anyways...


Clarification:

There should be a distinction between a fiction written as a tribute to a character (fanfiction) and fiction that is set on a derived work of a fiction author which Mr. Caradryan named as "derived" fiction because this thread demands that there should be. If this thread was posted on the Dota forum site Dota-allstars.com's fanfiction thread then the term derived fiction won't be used at all. The term derived fiction is not of common usage its just a term made to distinguish some differences of thought on this thread. I for a fact didn't even bother to make the distinction hence the title of this thread as was "To Write Dominion Fanfiction" hoping people with get the drift.

@Squirrelloid

Most people suck as writers.

That is absolutely true. Perhaps this may come as a shock for you but I for one would bet that it would be the author of the fanfiction to be the first to know if his/her story sucks or not. However instead of paying proof readers or publishing houses, people have found a more cheaper and better way to counter their own suckiness and that is through PEER REVIEW. People go to forums and post their works their in order for other people to review it. Yes thats right. Letting some random guy read your work and letting him post a constructive criticism is a much, much cheaper and exciting compared to a paid proof reader.

Put your feet inside the writer's shoes and feel the feeling of waiting anxiously for anyone to comment on your work. Believe me its exhilirating; you don't know what they will say, whether if they like it or want it to burn in hell along with you, it is in its on way, a thrilling experience.

Maybe this did not occur when you write your post but I'm pretty sure these "morons" with modems did not deliver their work in a silver-platter. Well how could they? They are just amateurs who just have the passion and time to write. Tell me good sir, is that even a crime?

Further, people with actual talent don't write fanfiction - they can actually make money writing instead.

Why in the hell would a professional writer even bother writing fanfiction? If he is indeed a professional then he would think as a professional and not sell his written work for free. Fanfiction is free for everyone (with copyright to the author of course) so why would J.K. Rowling write her works for free if she could make millions out of it? Fanfiction and with all of its subgenres are free for everyone to see and fanfic writers do this because it is their passion. Again, is that a crime?

Look. There is a very, very simple solution to all of your grievances of fanfiction as being sucky and Mr. Sombre even pointed this out in his first post.

IF YOU DON'T LIKE FANFICTION THEN DON'T READ IT...

[djo]

Originally Posted by raven013

Why in the hell would a professional writer even bother writing fanfiction?

Case in point: Steven Brust, author of the "Vlad Taltos" series of novels and a better-than-fair writer of fantasy, wrote a "Firefly" fanfic. Were it "Star Trek" or "Star Wars" instead of "Firefly", possibly he could have written an authorized novel instead (which is the other reason a professional author would write fanfiction, they're getting paid for it, and I would say that authorized novels in a given universe are pretty much professional fan fiction). But Brust wrote a Firefly (short) Firefly novel anyway, because he loved the characters and the universe.