MP: Nub Bash 2010 - Late Age - Completed- Victor: Atlantis

[rdonj]

Recommend attaching fixed version to opening post of this thread should you guys go with lategame diversity. There are no known conflicts with CBM in the fixed version. It should work perfectly.

[Verjigorm]

I would like to point out that the Ogre map seems to have some VERY bad starting provinces. I'm frequently getting 3 neighbor starts and this last time I got a 2 neighbor start.

I'm fine if you want to use it, but I reserve the right to mulligan if I get a 2-neighbor starting province. :-)

The other option is to fix the starting provinces or... if the map has been updated since the version I'm using, perhaps those provinces have already been eliminated as starting locations?

Additionally, due to the sheer number of available water provinces (the map is intended for 3 water players), I'm going to say that my prediction is that either R'lyeh or Atlantis will win.

Additionally, (again with the water advantage), All land movement between the four land provinces is restricted to single choke points whereas movement via the sea is extremely unrestricted meaning that not only do the water nations have a numerical advantage in terms of land size, a land nation must also defend a much larger area against them. The ending of this game is therefore predicted to by Atlantis vs. R'lyeh who will optimally take the following strategy:

Enter into a "Last 2" alliance and split the water provinces evenly among them (23 each) and then do a NAP until all land nations are eliminated.

There are 56 land provinces per land nation, but land nations have great difficulty controlling water provinces against sea nations in early and into early-middle game since they cannot hire defenses or naturally travel there (with a couple of exceptions) which means that the water nations have 23 incontestable provinces each for at least 30-50 turns until strong undead, aquatic summons, and the living castle come into play. Sounds very cushy for the water boys.

Not saying I won't work at it or that I'm disgruntled--I always enjoy a challenge. I'm just sayin'... might be a little skewed especially for really new players.

I would recommend that when you build your pretender and formulate your strategy keep the advantage of the water nations in mind, but don't go overboard. Just make sure you have a way to get into the water. LA R'lyeh's dominion is also quite dangerous, so ensuring that you can keep their dominion from spreading into your lands is also a good idea, but that's enough "table talk", I think.

[Verjigorm]

I have constructed two adjusted versions of the Ogre Map which eliminate either all start positions with fewer than 3 neighbors (3up) or all start positions with fewer than 4 neighbors (4up).

I also noticed that 2 and 3 neighbor provinces are the rule, not the exception, so the 3up version is probably sufficient. There are also some provinces that have quite large numbers of neighbors (6-7)--decreasing the total number of starting provinces increases the chance of starting on one of these.

Both versions of the map are found here. All of the additions are at the very end and are denoted for easy readability.

These are .map files only.

I also vote to change the map to the 3up or 4up version posted here.

Disclaimer: I may have made a few errors (I'll say less than 2%)--I was going as quickly as possible.

[ano]

I second Verjigorm and ask that version with no less than 4 neighbor starts is used.

[Kupiko]

Well according to what verjigorm said i'd rather play on different map.

[Verjigorm]

Well, Kupi, you see there are ways to deal with the problem such as a Land vs. Water alliance. 2 sea nations versus all the land nations combined strength would result in the sea nations losing. There are always such interesting possibilities when diplomacy enters the game which is why I like MP so much.

I'm all for sticking with the current map provided, as I said, the provision whereby no one get stuck with a 2-neighbor starting province.

[Pablomatic]

I vote for endgame diversity.

We could play the ogre map, but allow no water nations?

Or another map, I don't care that much, I just like the choke points and interesting layout of the Ogre map. I'm good with whatever the consensus turns out to be.

[Herr Heimlich]

If I see correctly, the game is still open to joining players? Like to hop in as Mictlan, if that is ok.

[ano]

I really hope this game will start soon as it already has 10 players anyway.

Herr Heimlich
Welcome aboard. Do you want endgame diversity? We miss one vote at the moment.

[Herr Heimlich]

Originally Posted by ano

I really hope this game will start soon as it already has 10 players anyway.

Herr Heimlich
Welcome aboard. Do you want endgame diversity? We miss one vote at the moment.

Thank you, I do in fact want endgame diversity
About the map, I join whatever has the majority at the time.