Merkava.

[RERomine]

Originally Posted by kevineduguay1

Firstly doctrine changes by nessesity or a shift in tactical thought. If it did not the US would never have made the Stryker.

Agreed, but has it happened with the Merkava beyond ad-hoc. Versions of the Merkava have been around for roughly 36 years. Has carrying troops in the Merkava developed into an standard practice documented in IDF training manuals? I will admit that if it has, such manuals aren't readily available in the local book store. Also, I find very few references to the capability on the internet as well. There are some, but the number of sites that omit any references at all seems to vastly out number those that do mention it.

Originally Posted by kevineduguay1

If not ment to carry troops or if not doctrine why the sniper port in the read door of some Merkavas? This feature will be on all Namer HAPCs.

This one you would have to ask the designers or tankers who had input into the design. I would take a guess that it would be nice to know the rear of the tank is clear before the crew bails out if they need to. Keep in mind, a sniper is one person with light gear. The Merkava could carry one person extra person without off loading any ammo and the one person should not hinder operations of the tank.

Originally Posted by kevineduguay1

The ammo is no longer packed in crates as shown in the above thumb-nail. They all come in their own container. Could this allow the ammo load to be shifted from the rear compartment to areas around or under the turret basket? Just enough to carry 50 rounds and 8 troops? Remember 10 rounds are already in the turret in the automatic magazine on MkIV. What about the article that mentions a possible 105mm ammo load of 92 rounds if no troops are carried or about 80 rounds of 120mm? Look up and then explain the Merkava "Tankbulance". 3 stretcher cases, 3 man medical team, life support and enough gear to perform emergency operations. Yet it can still with all this aboard fight like a tank. This version is said to have a reduced ammo load for the main gun but it still looks like anyother Merkava and hits just as hard.

I'm not sure what you mean by they all come in their own container. In one photo, I saw rounds in their own shipping tubes, but you wouldn't put the tubes in the tank. Just the rounds would be loaded. No matter anyhow. I also can see an extra 24 rounds being loaded at the expense of being able to use the rear exit. That gives it 82 rounds with that load.

As far as the Tankbulance, I have read two stretchers from other sources, not three. Despite the fact the website you provided says three, a picture in the same website shows only two and basic life saving equipment. I seriously doubt they are going to have a doctor on board. Even removing a splinter, he is likely to do more harm than good unless the vehicle is standing still, not shooting and not getting hit. Medics are enough. Stabilize and evacuate. That is their role.

Originally Posted by kevineduguay1

The Namer is a very roomy vehicle but as you said only has 8 passenger/troop seats. The Namer is set to replace most if not all other APCs now in inventory with the IDF. It now carries 3 weapons if you count the Soltam 60mm mortar. The 50cal mounted on the R-OWS can be swaped out for a Mk19 AGL. In the near future the IFV varriant may mount a 30mm Bushmaster, coax 7.62 MG and a twin Spike ATGM launch tube mounted on a R-OWS. While the weapon will not protrude in any way into the troop compartment much of that extra space seen now will be used up to store the larger 30mm rounds and extra Spike missiles.

How it impacts the passenger compartment remains to be seen. ATGMs aren't all that small and have to be stored properly, which takes up space. Don't be surprised if it reduces the number of passengers that can be carried. That is if we even find out anytime in the near future. It is unlikely the IDF will publish details in the newspaper.

Do you understand where you are getting resistance from with respect to the change you have requested? I don't think anyone has really questioned that the Merkava can carry troops or that you can fit eight in there, albeit lightly equipped and tight. It still boils down to whether the tactic has made it to mainstream doctrine. Maybe somewhere it is in doctrine on dealing with terrorists and guerrillas who don't have tanks. I highly doubt they would use such a tactic against an enemy who can field hundreds or thousands of tanks. That is the type of war that threatens their very livelihood and that is the type of war their doctrine is going to be built around. If you can show that carrying troops is part of the IDF principle doctrine, I would be surprised if your requested change didn't occur.

[Imp]

Your tanknet post produced virtualy the result expected, can use in an emergency to evacuate but are used with a couple of men on board which is pretty much if you remember how said played when I modified let it carry a scout unit.
Makes sense Israel likes to protect there men so best protected & crucialy fastest vehicle forward, tank commander can stay in the tank & let his passengers go for a look maybe even launch a little hand held UAV.
Or they can check a firing location for suitability & then take up position to defend it from RPGs given opponent.
They also have the ability to field command tanks easily, 2 guys & some electronics could probably fit & still carry a decent ammo load.

[Marek_Tucan]

How many rounds are given up to give space for the stretchers?
And how gutted was that "showtime" Merkava?
And you have numbers. 2-3 fully loaded max., 1-2 usually.

[DRG]

The AI will use a gun APC much like it does a tank.

Don

[kevineduguay1]

The extra 8 rounds on the MkI and MkII are stowed in front of the engine fire wall between it and the turret basket. They are in 4, 2 round containers. This is why the tank can carry 14 rounds with only 6 in the ready possition on the floor of the basket.Info from DADI on Tanknet. Also gave some other load info for other weapons. Please look at the relevant posts on that site.

I may get access to a book written by a Tanknet member (Marsh) on the Merkava. Maybe this will clear away more of the fog.

[Mobhack]

Originally Posted by kevineduguay1

The extra 8 rounds on the MkI and MkII are stowed in front of the engine fire wall between it and the turret basket. They are in 4, 2 round containers. This is why the tank can carry 14 rounds with only 6 in the ready possition on the floor of the basket.Info from DADI on Tanknet. Also gave some other load info for other weapons. Please look at the relevant posts on that site.

I may get access to a book written by a Tanknet member (Marsh) on the Merkava. Maybe this will clear away more of the fog.

I am quite capable of reading tanknet, since I pointed you that way in the first place.

The thing will be modelled in the way we decide. No further discussion required.

Andy

[kevineduguay1]

Andy,

I never should have brought it up and I won't again HERE. F-OFF you close minded puke!

So long guys. Just trying to help.

[RERomine]

Originally Posted by kevineduguay1

Andy,

I never should have brought it up and I won't again HERE. F-OFF you close minded puke!

So long guys. Just trying to help.

Kevin, that isn't called for. What you did was brought up a suggestion and it was politely turned down. You kept pushing for what you wanted and seem surprised people are getting irritated you won't let it go. I mentioned what you needed to do to get your argument heard, prove it to be doctrine. Instead, you kept on focusing on what can be instead of what it really is and how it is used. You got your answer long before today. Time to move on and accept if for what it is.

[Imp]

Originally Posted by kevineduguay1

Andy,

I never should have brought it up and I won't again HERE. F-OFF you close minded puke!

So long guys. Just trying to help.

We got there weeks ago thanks.