Alright,
REGARD the JANE's ref. at the top of my last post.
DISREGARD the rest, the data is good, however, there's a difference (Name.) between a
SU-85 they received as noted above and the
ASU-85 of which SIPRI has
no record of. I searched against all the WARSAW PACT countries and their post Cold War country names and to cover my xxx I limited my to Viet-Min *France/Vietnam (Yes it gets that detailed.) as
Recipient country/Left
Supplier country blank/Searched for
Armoured Vehicles and the database pulled up all the transactions that might've occurred from ALL countries in the database. No
ASU-85 is shown.
ASU-57 is as second hand with deliveries between 1970-71 as we have it in the game and recent refs have indicated. This leaves only two viable options because the numbers match perfectly to the SU-85 shipment from 1960.
1. Did SIPRI not get the numbers? And as JANE's indicates that they were shipped when Vietnam received their
T-62/T-55/T-54 tanks. Why hide those tanks when you reported the other shipments? JANE's quote from below ref.
"The Soviet ASU-85s were part of larger shipments of T-62/55/54 tanks, BMP-1 armored personnel carriers and artillery that allowed the VPA to convert its 304th, 308th and 320th Infantry Divisions into Mechanized Infantry Divisions, or Motorized Rifle Divisions in Soviet terminology."
http://www.janes.com/article/59688/d...et-era-asu-85s
or...
2. Did the SU-85 get modernized at some point. I bring this up as SIPRI and the UN
don't require such reporting. Do note though that SIPRI
does/will report any upgrades to equipment that the seller makes or the buyer requests, Turkey is an example of this with their LEOPARD tanks they got from Germany.
The below is the last recorded armor deal the Vietnamese made.
Israel
R: Viet Nam (150) RAM APV (2006) 2006-2009 (150) For police; RAM-2000 version
So if we look at the SIPRI data on Armored Vehicle transfers based on the JANE's information we would get the following...
A1) (200) T-62 Tank (1978)
1978-1979 (200) Probably from
Czechoslovakian production line or Second-hand
A2) (150) BMP-1 IFV (1979)
1979-1981 (150) My note: From the Soviet Union.
To allow for the Post China Conflict
A2 would be the better fit.
The below reflect the rest of the transactions as noted above from JANE's from newest back. All will be from the Soviet Union.
B1) (600) T-55 Tank (1973)
1973-1975 (600) Aid
B2) (25)
ASU-57 Self-propelled gun (1970) 1970 (25) Probably second-hand
My Note: Added for context.
B3) (500) T-54 Tank (1969)
1970-1972 (500) Aid (
incl for use in war in South Vietnam)
B4) (50)
SU-85 Self-propelled gun (1960) 1960-1961 (50) Probably Second-hand
These simply represent the earliest possible transfer dates, unless again you allow for modernization of the SU-85. The issue would have to be to determine any
obvious difference in size and weight of the regular Army
SU-85 against the Airborne version
ASU-85. And from there guns and road wheels (Though as we saw from North Korea a few years back these can be modified and hulls lengthened. Look in the North Korean thread that
MARCELLO has done such
great work in a very tough OOB to manage and maintain.)
I'll look into the modernization issue to see if it's possible you would have to initially assume that an airborne tank is lighter then it's Army counter part, but, I did say assume. This I hope will not be the French 105mm artillery issue all over again. Since it's not in the OOB yet I'd rather
cover all the bases and get it right.
One issue that seems to be consistent concerning the ASU-85 is they probably did see limited use and where put into storage as noted. The pictures in the refs. are consistent with the
ASU-85 so I don't really that, they don't have them.
Why all this effort for one unit, first you all expect it, it'll (HOPEFULLY!) avoid issues down the road and finally as my closest "friends" (Even the MARINE one.
) know - It's how I roll.
The other stuff can wait until I can find out more.
Regards,
Pat
Re: MBT's
Re: MBT's
Linear Mode
