OT: Bible Discussion (Split from Real World Sensitivities)

[Ballbarian]

My view is that you don't need to belong to an organization or align yourself with a particular set of teachings.

Words to live by:
"To thine own self be true"

[Kristoffer O]

I'm truly not religious. I'm quite materialistic, but I don't care about material things.

I'm mostly a feel good kind of person. I feel good regardless of circumstances. I rarely become angry or stressed and am more or less content with everything that happens. I'm not sure if that qualifies as spiritual.

[JimMorrison]

Originally Posted by Kristoffer O

I'm truly not religious. I'm quite materialistic, but I don't care about material things.

I'm mostly a feel good kind of person. I feel good regardless of circumstances. I rarely become angry or stressed and am more or less content with everything that happens. I'm not sure if that qualifies as spiritual.

I believe what Edi was getting at, was that it seems that you feel "it", though you don't understand the need to ritualize "it".

What is "it"? I don't think anyone really knows. According to some eastern teachings (they all kind of bleed together for me), when you discover what "it" truly is, it is beyond human language and expression, and thus everyone trying so fervently to tell you what "it" really is, are either liars, or just misguided.

In any case, I would agree, you (do you prefer Kristoffer, or is Kris okay?) do seem to feel "it". It's always nice to see that in people, I think your students would agree.

And don't feel too bad about your inability to define "it", like most of us who "feel it", you haven't yet "reached it", so "it"s a little bit foggy. Just give it some time.


And SlipperyJim, I also wanted to thank you. We're disagreeing quite handily here, and it is all managing to not turn ugly, that's pretty exceptional. Just remember that I am all for your ability to do, think, and feel what you please - I just draw the line on all the judgement and damnation junk. I am in no hurry to find anyone's god for one simple reason - I am entirely, 100% confident that I am a good and kind person - and therefore no all-loving god could ever commit me to any hell. The human mind loves the arbitrary, but this god person wouldn't let a guy like me be tortured for eternity over an issue of semantics.

<3

[HoneyBadger]

I believe in all religions, in that they all exist, and that their existence-(atleast as far as they pertain and relate to my own existence)-result completely from my own perception of them. That makes me a 'pantheist solopsist'. It works well as a belief system, in that I can accept that all these different viewpoints are fundamentally correct (God exists, Allah exists, Jesus exists, Buddha exists, Odin exists, Rama exists, everybody's right, etc ad infinium), while still allowing myself to accept or deny their personal relevance to myself-in that the very existence and fabric of the Universe Itself-(as it pertains to me)-exists as a result of my own existence and perspective on it. And, should I at some point entirely cease to exist, the very Universe, Time, and Reality-as I percieve them-will-(for me)-then completely cease to exist. Thus, being my very own Alpha and Omega, the freedom and responsibility of choice falls entirely on my own infinite and ultimate self, while any sense of subservience or obsequity before a higher power is nullified by the fundamental inability for there to be a Universe which I can percieve, which does not also force my existence. To put it as succinctly as I possibly can:

"I, therefore.".

[Edratman]

If there be an infinite Being, he does not need our help -- we need not waste our energies in his defense.

[SlipperyJim]

Originally Posted by Edratman

If there be an infinite Being, he does not need our help -- we need not waste our energies in his defense.

You posted a lot of quotations, but I wanted to respond to this one. It reminded me of a passage from Acts 5:33-39:

When they heard this, they were furious and wanted to put them to death. But a Pharisee named Gamaliel, a teacher of the law, who was honored by all the people, stood up in the Sanhedrin and ordered that the men be put outside for a little while. Then he addressed them: "Men of Israel, consider carefully what you intend to do to these men. Some time ago Theudas appeared, claiming to be somebody, and about four hundred men rallied to him. He was killed, all his followers were dispersed, and it all came to nothing. After him, Judas the Galilean appeared in the days of the census and led a band of people in revolt. He too was killed, and all his followers were scattered. Therefore, in the present case I advise you: Leave these men alone! Let them go! For if their purpose or activity is of human origin, it will fail. But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop these men; you will only find yourselves fighting against God."

You go, Rabbi!

[HoneyBadger]

Or our money

It just ticks me off that churches are tax exempt, and yet religion won't keep it's nose out of politics.
Fine, you want to be part of the political process-pay your part like the rest of us.

I'll respect any church that pays taxes to the government, even when they don't have to.

It even says in the Bible "Render unto Caesar what is Caesars."

I don't think priests, ministers, etc. should be able to vote, unless they also pay taxes.
And I don't think you should be able to donate any taxable income or assets to a church-maybe
that would keep some of the greediest of the evangelists from taking too many houses and mortgage payments.

to (probably mis)quote some comedian I can't remember the name of:

"I don't believe in any god that requires heavy financing"

[Edratman]

I cannot see why we should expect an infinite God to do better in another world than he does in this.

-- Robert Green Ingersoll, "Reply To The Indianapolis Clergy" The Iconoclast, Indianapolis, Indiana (1882)

[Bwaha]

You have to understand that the God of Isreal is a very pure being, and won't abide with evil. What He defines as evil. It is part of his nature that can't be changed. He has given us the choice to accept the blood sacrifice of his only begotton son or not. It is the blood of the Lamb that allows us into his presence without being destroyed. This world was created to be the source of beings that would destroy the rebelling angels. All of the rebels are bound on this planet. Thats why this world is so messed up. We are in a war that is spirtital in nature, that it bleeds into our physical realm is unfortunate but seems to be part of the plan. I ask everyone to just try an experiment. Ask the being known as Jesus to cover your sins and enter your heart. Then ask to receive the power of the Holy Spirit. The tingling sensation that you will feel is the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Then give praise and thanks. Go and share what you have found. Its that simple. Because this is the sole path to ever-lasting life, we are commanded to share the truth with others. If you choose this path, you will be included in something that is wonderous. But there is a cost. You will be hated by all man unreasonably, it is part of the deal. Also your eyes will be opened to a realm that is simply too hard to comprehend without the guidence of the Holy Spirit. Sorry if I've offended anyone but this is the truth. Try the experiment, you will discover more than you could possibly imagine.

[Edratman]

If there is a God who will damn his children forever, I would rather go to hell than to go to heaven and keep the society of such an infamous tyrant. I make my choice now. I despise that doctrine. It has covered the cheeks of this world with tears. It has polluted the hearts of children, and poisoned the imaginations of men.... What right have you, sir, Mr. clergyman, you, minister of the gospel to stand at the portals of the tomb, at the vestibule of eternity, and fill the future with horror and with fear? I do not believe this doctrine, neither do you. If you did, you could not sleep one moment. Any man who believes it, and has within his breast a decent, throbbing heart, will go insane. A man who believes that doctrine and does not go insane has the heart of a snake and the conscience of a hyena.


-- Robert Green Ingersoll, "The Liberty Of All" (1877)