in which occasion will you raise taxes - Page 6

PvK · #51 October 30th, 2003, 03:29 AM

Hypaspists have one higher basic defense, even before armor. The other difference is that (again, due to armor) they move faster - twice as fast when marching through friendly provinces.

PvK

[ October 30, 2003, 01:30: Message edited by: PvK ]

Jasper · #52 October 30th, 2003, 03:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Saber Cherry:
Would you mind pointing out, specifically, the overly complex portion, and specifically provide a simpler replacement? There are some changes I'd like, but I don't think they make the game simpler. So I'm quite curious as to the nature of your complaint(s), and your suggestion(s)... I like simple, deep things.

If I'm overlooking something obvious in one of your Posts, please point me to it.

-Cherry [/QB]

Something like the miniatures game Armati. There are other popular miniatures games too, although I'd shy away from the Warhammer stuff.

I highly recommend taking a look at Armati 2, which is due out around the end of this year.

-Jasper

apoger · #53 October 30th, 2003, 03:52 AM

Perhaps I need to qualify what I said.
Hypaspists aren't "bad", however in the early game players will want bulk, that means Cardaces. Later when they want quality, they will go right to Hoplites. The other units available are what make hypaspists obsolete.

IMHO the resource increase was too heavy handed (much like many of the game changes).

Jasper · #54 October 30th, 2003, 03:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by apoger:
>4 Hypaspists for 60 gold
>14 Cardaces for 140 gold

The resource costs of Hypaspists have doubled!
This now makes the Cardaces much more attractive and the Hypaspists near worthless.

Well, you can't use them for the same fast early
start effect as you could in Dom 1, and for that you're right, Cardaces are better. Overall I think they're definitely better, and I suspect would beat Hoplites cost for cost in melee.

Plus HI with a strategic move of 2 is pretty nice.

Pocus · #55 October 30th, 2003, 08:50 AM

Didnt saw the 'tweaking' of hypaspysts too. They gain 4 prot, but increasing from 8 to 18 resources is definitively too much. I now find them in excess in the Arco roster, as I will either use Cardaces early, then revert to Hoplites when time permit. I only recruited some to goes with my elephants, but this is very secondary.

as for the LI usage, perhaps you can restrict the attack rear order to units which cost 15 resources or less. That would be a quick and dirty trick for giving them a flanking role in battle.

Calanor · #56 October 30th, 2003, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jasper:
[..snipped..]
2nd: Make light troops less susceptiple to missile hits, and increase missile accuracy and damage. One way is to make spread out so 2/3rds of all missiles miss them.
[..snipped..]

Generally speaking, I'd expect light infantry to get massacred by enemy archers. What do you base your suggestion on? I hardly expect that light infantry would literally dodge arrows, so by all accounts heavy infantry should be better equipped to face enemy archers (e.g. Roman legionaries and the turtle formation would be a good historical example). As Dominions handle things right now, this is the case - the high Protection of HI allows them to counter missiles, while the maneouverability of LI allows them to maintain a high Defense (which is irrelevant vs missiles). However, it might well be worth countering crossbows and the like with LI - such missile attacks will give HI some problems and in such situations, fast LI might be preferable.

That is not to say that LI might need to get some extra advantages - but I don't know if I agree that increased defense vs missiles should be one of those.

Jasper · #57 October 30th, 2003, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Calanor:
Generally speaking, I'd expect light infantry to get massacred by enemy archers. What do you base your suggestion on?[/QB]

I base it on the simple fact that every pre gunpowder army I can think of used skirmishers to screen their heavy units from missile fire, so that their heavy units could enter melee fresh.

The mechanics of this were quite simple -- individual soldiers simply spread out, presenting a much more difficult target than shoulder to shoulder heavy infantry. And in fact this mechanism is already in Dom 2, it's just that blocks of skirmishers are just as densely packed as a phalanx of pike.

Tight formation Light infantry was also used, which were vulnerable to missiles, but the tactics that would make them usefull don't work in Dominions, and so I've been implicitly ignoring them -- sorry for the confusion.

Nerfix · #58 October 30th, 2003, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pocus:
Didnt saw the 'tweaking' of hypaspysts too. They gain 4 prot, but increasing from 8 to 18 resources is definitively too much. I now find them in excess in the Arco roster, as I will either use Cardaces early, then revert to Hoplites when time permit. I only recruited some to goes with my elephants, but this is very secondary.

I didn't play Arco very much in Dom I because i found it a very boring nation, but i have started to play with Arco in Dom II. IMO the Hypastists are good enough.

Jasper · #59 October 30th, 2003, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pocus:
Didnt saw the 'tweaking' of hypaspysts too. They gain 4 prot, but increasing from 8 to 18 resources is definitively too much. I now find them in excess in the Arco roster, as I will either use Cardaces early, then revert to Hoplites when time permit. I only recruited some to goes with my elephants, but this is very secondary.

Their defense is 4 better, their morale 2 more, and the encumberance 2 less. Their good defense and ok protection against a hoplites spear makes me suspect they'd Last long enough to take advantage of hoplites quick fatigue.

Plus, having a strategic move of 2 is a big advantage.

Quote:

as for the LI usage, perhaps you can restrict the attack rear order to units which cost 15 resources or less. That would be a quick and dirty trick for giving them a flanking role in battle.

That's a decent idea. My only fear is that a few heavy infantry all the way out on the flanks will simply destroy this tactic.

Nerfix · #60 October 30th, 2003, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by PDF:

quote:
Originally posted by Nerfix:

quote:
Originally posted by Pocus:
Didnt saw the 'tweaking' of hypaspysts too. They gain 4 prot, but increasing from 8 to 18 resources is definitively too much. I now find them in excess in the Arco roster, as I will either use Cardaces early, then revert to Hoplites when time permit. I only recruited some to goes with my elephants, but this is very secondary.

I didn't play Arco very much in Dom I because i found it a very boring nation, but i have started to play with Arco in Dom II. IMO the Hypastists are good enough.
Arco boring ? !!
You surely prefer those wonderfully varied Ulm infantry or Pythium Legionnaries ?

Ulm was boring, but Ulm had troops with something else than spears of diffrent length. In fact, i think that Ulm had the most diverse infnatry in the game, excluding LI. Ulm is no longer so boring because they have Siege Engineers and Sappers. I also thougth that Pythium is not only boring but yber with their ungodly starting gem income. And Pythium is still both boring and yber.

[ October 30, 2003, 13:31: Message edited by: Nerfix ]