Elli (Started)

[IndyPendant]

Yeah LP, that's what I expected, random starts.

Just the luck of the draw. I started at 65, with 3 neighbours, one a plains. *sigh* --And then! I found out that Sauromatia started at 73 and Atlantis at 101 (sorry if that was any big secret, Sensori : ).

/rant on

There are 107 provinces on this map--96 land. Aethyr and I have 14 of them IN TOTAL. The other 6 players must be well spread out; you have around 15 provinces each to play with. Enjoy!

It was an amazingly crappy start for me--but just barely good enough that I couldn't cry foul until I found my neighbours, a few turns in. With my playtesting, and this MP game, I've already decided I *DESPISE* the Aran map, and will never, ever play in it again. Too much chance for someone getting stuck out on a peninsula with nowhere to go, or down in that crappy wasteland corner.

Also: random starts, imo, should NEVER be used for MP games. It really sucks to commit months of a person's time to a game--only to realize that you've got no room to expand in any direction. If an MP map has 8 players, 8 starting points should be picked out, and then assigned randomly. Much more chance of not being a waste of time.

I don't know if I've salvaged anything and created a game where I have a half-assed chance of winning. Only time will tell, but if I have done so, it was only by trampling over (literally ; ) Aethyr's game. Because of my crappy start, one of us--quite possibly both of us--had to have the game stripped from them.

/rant off

Anyways, just putting this out there as food for thought for future games. I'm still going to play this one through, and see how it goes...

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

Anyways... thanks for the feedback- I see where you're coming from, for sure.

Actually, I am stuck on that peninsula- and barely secured a route outwards.

Though actually, I like Aran for these reasons. I like the extra tension and the idea that I could be eliminated at any time. I appreciate the risk of early elimination. I learn more from a quick vicious war and defeat than in a game such as BAG where I rot in peace for three years from a bad start position and timid diplomatic choices, despite having a large swath of wastlands and swamps available to me.

That said, check out Halls of Valhalla - my first post lets the players select either map, aran or paraganos. And if you get in there really _REALLY_ early, right when a new game is started up (before it gets its own thread) you get a chance to really customize it. I'm afraid though, that once gets its own thread, it isn't likely to change.

P.S. Games I'm involved in, I have an interest in Aran, I'll be careful to mention the map. For the other games, the ones I'm just administering, though... I'll use the thrice-modified version of Paraganos as the default when the players have no preference.

I am familiar enough with the map editor now to take on custom positions... but before I do that, I'd like to see each players:
1). Name
2). Nation
3). Province index # where their capital is
4). Rate position great, good, ok, weak, or horrible
5). If its a bad postion, mention what's wrong with it.

Ideally, I wouldn't have to wait, and would get this information now, so I could start thinking it over. Realistically, some of this information might not be the sort of stuff you want to let out there. Practically, I recently kicked off Forseti, though there aren't many takers for the settings of that one... so it'll probably be a while before I start a new one, anyways. OTOH, nothing is stopping me from organizing another 8 player one (that I will not be participating in).

To sum: in a week or so, when the information isn't classified, could you please evaluate your starting positions and pass that information on to me?

[Aethyr]

I don't mind sharing:

1) Aethyr
2) Sauromatia
3) 73
4) OK

While I agree with many of Indy's points: starting very close (relatively) to another player presents some challenges.

However, I think that thing that he's not giving enough credit to is diplomacy. When he chose to attack there wre several indy (no pun intended) provinces to be had. Additionally, especitally since he got the jump on me, I was willing to offer terms that were quite favorable. Instead, he decided that it was more beneficial to his cause if he eliminated me sooner rather than alter. I'm not faulting him; in his position I may have made the same choice. BTW Indy, I still have not conceeded that you are strong enough to break me.

Don't get me wrong, I'd MUCH rather have 10-12 or so provinces to work in before an early encounter, but I also enjoy the dimensions that an early encounter and diplomacy bring to the game. Hope this helps.

[IndyPendant]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not emotionally upset or anything. And simply starting near another player isn't really the issue. It's that I was only three provinces away from *two* other players, both of whom were placed in the only direction I could expand in--all on top of being handed a rather weak starting province.

It's like joining a wrestling match, then discovering I've been hobbled and had one arm tied behind my back--and no one else has. At least I've got a *very* good excuse if I don't win. ; )

And you're right, Aethyr, diplomacy was an option--but not a viable one, in my opinion. With Atlantis expanding around me from the northeast, and you due east of me, I literally had *nowhere* to go. All you would have had to do was take the provinces bordering your capital, and I would be cut off from the continent, with only around 7 or so provinces to my name. And I...highly doubted...you would be willing to cede one of those province to me. ; ) Since a war between us seemed all-but inevitable...I decided to initiate it under the most favourable terms I could.

One thing though, Aethyr: if I shouldn't have revealed your capital loc, I apologize. Maybe I'm being way overconfident, but I've already begun considering it mine. ; ) (I hope I don't look back on this and wince in embarrassment, in a few turns!) Didn't mean to exclude you when I apologized to Sensori, no intention of offending, and so forth...

[Aethyr]

IndyPendant said:
One thing though, Aethyr: if I shouldn't have revealed your capital loc, I apologize. Maybe I'm being way overconfident, but I've already begun considering it mine. ; ) (I hope I don't look back on this and wince in embarrassment, in a few turns!) Didn't mean to exclude you when I apologized to Sensori, no intention of offending, and so forth...

Do not worry. The blooddrinkers of Sauromatia wish all to know the place from whence their DOOM comes! We are glad that you consider our capitol already yours, please do come in. We have a feast that has been prepared especially for you.

[Aethyr]

The Witchkings of Sauromatia thank the Formor for generously lending us their land; you shall be repaid beyond imagining. We require no assistance against the birdlings, but we invite you to join us in picking their bones clean.

To the Alantians: you also may partake of this conquest; you will find us most generous in friendship and in the sharing of the spoils.

You will find us completely without mercy in war.

To the cowards of Caelum we say only this: We are coming for you.

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

To all parties, I wish to say that the Fomorians are an honorable peoples. And we will honorably wage war soon.

We have reached the limits of our empire. Someday soon we will send either Sauromatia, Caelum, or Arcosephale a messenger informing you of war. We have not yet decided whom, and will listen to envoys, although our own interests will be the greatest priority. We expect both parties to abide by the terms of our non-agression agreement.

For example, if I send a declaration on turn six, the message shall be recieved in-game on turn seven. Hostilities shall not occur until turn ten. If they fight honorably, I shall show quarter if asked for, and fight honorably myself.

If, on the other hand, the other party attacks the turn they recieve the declaration, then I shall show the fools the true power of disease.

[IndyPendant]

Coming for me? You have only one province left--and one that apparently Fomoria 'lent' you. Soon you will lose them.

Still, it will be interesting to see what you intend to do...

[Aethyr]

IndyPendant said:
Coming for me? You have only one province left--and one that apparently Fomoria 'lent' you. Soon you will lose them.

Still, it will be interesting to see what you intend to do...

Why, the unexpected of course.

[MartialDoctor]

On another note, I will be on the road home at the end of next week. I will be leaving on the 20th or 21st, depending on the weather, and will be able to play again on the 22nd or 23rd. I will try to get to a hotel with an internet connection but there is no guarantee.

Is there any way we can do a quick host, without a time limit, during that time?