MP: BSoD (Newbie, LA, CBM 1.92) [Started!]

[Legendary League]

Originally Posted by Shardphoenix

Unless in darkness. And Ermor without Darkness is just a dead meat anyway.

Well of course! You can counter that, though, since Ermor's research lags unless they get to Const-4 for Skull Mentors [else Spectators are woefully inefficient: 12 gems for 5 RP in magic-1, vs 10 gems for 9 RP]. As a result, their early/mid game research is quite constrained, especially since they need to rely on death gems for most of it, and can't expand research growth with castles.

2 Lammashtas * 50 turns = 100 chaff killed at most. Doesn`t sound like a good usage of mage time - better spam Dust to dust, I`d say.

Summon Lammashtas takes only one battle turn and a death gem to use (you can then spam Dust to Dust afterwards). It's more effective for tying up the chaff before they reach you so you can have the time to spam those spells that you need. And if you can effectively stall the turn long enough (and they're attacking), you force them to autorout. So just having one mage spend a turn summoning lammashatas per battle can be very worthwhile. Basically when facing Ermor with magic, in my experience, the two things to keep in mind are 1) How can I most effectively, cheaply, and quickly kill the mounds of undead chaff they throw at me?, and 2) How do I keep the chaff tied up long enough for me to wipe them? At least in my experience.

Flambeaus (Holy Pyre: Fire Cloud which deals x3 damage to undead, combined with say boots of quickness) and larger AoE spells are much more powerful counters to Ermor. Also, communion'd holy priests if you have the option (Ulm for instance, can build up a communion of Iron priests and rain down things like H6 Banishment [permanently, too with a minor earth bless given 0 fatigue cost] with penetration items {which are overkill with H6, really]) just rip Ermor chaff apart (Ulm also has the option of Iron Blizzard spam). Cleansing water too, if you're a water nation. Blood nations can do the same with Sabbaths (and if necessary, can suicide diseased mages with massed Hellpower. An Earthquake or two is also incredibly useful against massed chaff: not sure about Bladewind against national Ermor undead, though it's effective against the unshielded chaff (these are all level 4-5 Evo; Hellpower is Blood 2). There's also Purgatory if you can put it up in time and are that hard pressed (Tham 7): wipes undead hordes off the map.

I'm personally more worried about Rl'yeh (since being a water nation naturally protects them). For that, I'm just going to be cheering Atlantis on, and getting high start dominion (since Mari starts next to a coast). And if I'm next to Rl'yeh, hey. I can try and go for a dom kill with blood sac .

Also, 4 yeses thus far. Need 2 more people to agree before we open it up to pretenders.

[parone]

the lizards of Ctis say go. we are ready, and the sacred serpents grow restless...

[Shardphoenix]

Summon Lammashtas takes only one battle turn and a death gem to use

In my experience, they usually kill a necromancer first.

H6 Banishment

16 communion slaves? That`s a really big communion.

Iron Blizzard spam

Tower shields.

permanently, too with a minor earth bless

If you`re communioned already - why not add "summon earthpower"?

I'm personally more worried about Rl'yeh

Of course you are - after all, Marignon is a closest thing to a silver bullet against Ermor - H3 High Inquisitors, Harbringers, Holy Pyre...

[Legendary League]

Originally Posted by Shardphoenix

In my experience, they usually kill a necromancer first.

Really? Everytime I use them, they go after the enemy.

And once their dead and routed, they come after me. Different experiences I guess.

16 communion slaves? That`s a really big communion.

8 actually. Power of the Spheres affects H as well. You can also use a prophetized S mage to reduce the number of necessary slaves down. You can also settle for an H5 or H4, if you're short on slaves. Really, the extra Hs give you more banishment AoEs and higher penetration. Every +1H gives +1 magic penetration against MR, and while Ermor has Protection of the Sepulchre for +4, I believe it's MR negates easily so it takes many castings to apply it to a large portion of their troops. At least, in my LA Ermor games. Having H6 just means +5 penetration, so the undead can make barely any checks (substitute for penetration items also).

Even with just a small communion, you can PotS and give the Iron Priest slaves H3, which is still fairly effective at clearing undead (and again 0 fatigue) (while the master is rolling H4-7 and still clearing swathes of undead per cast).

Tower shields.

It's still alot of armor piercing missiles flying about (will get through the unshielded undead chaff which they have, and have a decent chance at taking down tower shielded ones: think of them as crossbow batteries). Not as effective as high level holy banishments, but it's still quite effective. Throw out enough missiles and eventually shields are only an inconvenience.

If you`re communioned already - why not add "summon earthpower"?

There we go! Now all your Iron priest slaves/matrixed mages re rolling E3-5 (5 with an E2 and Boots). Chain-casts of Earthquakes destroy large chaff armies, and army buff spells like Legion of Steel/Weapons of Sharpness help the staying power of even weak indy chaff into effective blockers against undead hordes.

Of course you are - after all, Marignon is a closest thing to a silver bullet against Ermor - H3 High Inquisitors, Harbringers, Holy Pyre...

Wasn't my first choice for a nation (you took it ), but yeah. Mari's almost never afraid of Ermor (esp. with blood sacrifice to push back Ermor dominion). And personal opinion, but Ulm should have the tools to fight back easily, provided you keep up dominion (Counts, your own army of chaff to block/buy time, communionable holy mages [which are just as/more effective than plain H3 mages, mind, since they're, you know, useful at something other than banishments and can be empowered to higher levels of H], and major access to earth/fire evocations [with a crystal matrix], plus death/blood/astral). And if push comes to shove...Hellpower an entire communion of Second Tiers, horror mark, and getting the hell [heh heh, pun] out of Dodge.

If anything, I'll barely be building any High Inquisitors (a prophet, a few more to maintain dominion/go for potential domkills, and that's it). If I'm next to Ermor, I'll be Sabbathing/communioning Goethics, with a matrix to the prophet. HIs just aren't worth buying over Goethics and Mapmakers (name?), in anything more than small quantities. H3 is nice, but communion power is better (and they can still research/blood hunt/site search/forge in their spare time). Goethic communions will be doing most of my heavy lifting.

5 Yays. One more for us to kick it of.

[parone]

man, i thought this was a newbie game...

[parone]

u boys aint newbies...

[Legendary League]

Originally Posted by parone

u boys aint newbies...

I'm good at theory crafting.

Absolutely horrible at implementation.

Plus, I haven't played Dominions in so long I might as well (played 5 MPs before that (and got slaughtered every time), so still one).

[Blubbernaught]

Originally Posted by parone

u boys aint newbies...

I am! I've not even completed one MP game. Though some of the strategy they're talking can easily be from single player games. Newbie is considered newbie to multiplayer, as far as I can tell.

[Legendary League]

From what I can tell, non-newbie territory is after 10 MP games.

So I'm still a ways to go.

[Shardphoenix]

man, i thought this was a newbie game...

I just read many guides. Played 4 times vs real opponents, lost 3 times, and my opponents weren`t any more experienced. Also,read some LPs.

5 with an E2 and Boots

Boots of Earth are not THAT cheap. Oh, and they require Construction-4. So, boots take time, they are not turn-10 solution to undead problem.

communionable holy mages [which are just as/more effective than plain H3 mages, mind, since they're, you know, useful at something other than banishments and can be empowered to higher levels of H]

H3 Inquisitor is a pretty cool guy. Eh kills undead and doesnt afraid of anything.
Oh, and they are great at pushing back enemy dominion.
Also, his H3 is guaranteed - not just random pick, that you almost never get due to Murphy`s law. %)
Seriously, if I were Marignon who starts next to Ermor - I`d rush him with army of High Inquisitors and get easy 15D/turn.