OT: Flowers for the grave of MoM.

[Pirateiam]

Originally posted by Gandalf Parker:
It would be best if someone uses the "private message" button, or emails you a link. If its a patch site it might be OK but a link where you can get the game is frowned on here. (it is a forum owned by a game company after all)

There has been a long debate over the issue of abandonware. (I myself actually have an old copy I purchased of MOM long ago) I make a living programming (Indusrial Automation Ladder logic PLC's) so I understand the programmers side but when a software program is no longer sold or maintained by the intellectual property owner should it be abandoned to uselesness just to preserve that property?

Let me put to you in terms how my industry deals with it. Lets say I have written a ladder logic program to operate a waste water treatment plant.
I get paid for the program and work involved. While they own the software now, they can not copy my ladder logic (ladder logic is the code format) and use it in another PLC (programmable logic controller) without my consent. Now lets go 6 years into the future. The warranty has run out, I have moved on to another job and lets say they need to upgrade there plant. Should they be allowed to make changes to my code or even use it with slight changes in a new PLC? Now personally I do not have a problem with it unnless they are somehow making money directly from my code (reselling). Recently though I have run into company's that are trying to protect this code in industrial automation much like current game and applications on PCs. Customers go bannanas though since you are hindering any future upgrades etc... It is definately an interesting debate and I think it is far from being resolved.

As for abandonware I think a similar rule should follow. If the software is completely abandoned and as long as there is not a monetary gain the programmers should be flattered that someone is trying to revive there old work. Anyway who are we kidding the fighting going on is not about protecting the programmers intellectual property, it is about protecting the publishers pocketbook (not including Shrapnel since thay seem to be a very different type of game publisher)....but that is another debate.

[ June 11, 2004, 16:32: Message edited by: Pirateiam ]

[Nargel Primus]

Having a ball with the references to much enjoyed "classic" games.
MoM also had a unique side effect: my new "I don't play computer games"
girlfriend comes by for the first time and I bring up MoM on the screen.
"Give it a try" I tempt. Snerk...
Full 3-day weekend later she's still there (heh).
Am still married to Faelynn, so it worked pretty well.
One game that hasn't been mentioned that is in the same league for us grognards -
Fantasy General.

[Gandalf Parker]

Originally posted by Pirateiam:
As for abandonware I think a similar rule should follow. If the software is completely abandoned and as long as there is not a monetary gain the programmers should be flattered that someone is trying to revive there old work.

Actually I love the debate and would be glad to debate it with you somewhere like one of my other homes (alt.hacker or comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic or comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg newsGroups?). And abandonware is a great concept with many pros and cons. There are at least a couple of sites making strong efforts to stay as strict as possible (unlike the "backup" sites which are just warez sites in disquise) but it is stil technically 98% illegal.

BUT this is not newsgroup so its kindof a moot point. Its owned by a game company who does not wish to appear unprofessional. It was created to support their games. That means certain limitations do apply as to what they will seem to support on their service.

[ June 12, 2004, 13:39: Message edited by: Gandalf Parker ]

[Truper]

My favorite MoM rememberence:

Summon Torin, adventure with him for a while, find/forge him some good equipment. Send him in to take the castle of the Last enemy wizard by himself.

And now the most important part. When he arrives he must intone: I am the Chosen, and you have annoyed me.

[Pirateiam]

Originally posted by Gandalf Parker:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Pirateiam:
As for abandonware I think a similar rule should follow. If the software is completely abandoned and as long as there is not a monetary gain the programmers should be flattered that someone is trying to revive there old work.

Actually I love the debate and would be glad to debate it with you somewhere like one of my other homes (alt.hacker or comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic or comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg newsGroups?). And abandonware is a great concept with many pros and cons. There are at least a couple of sites making strong efforts to stay as strict as possible (unlike the "backup" sites which are just warez sites in disquise) but it is stil technically 98% illegal.

BUT this is not newsgroup so its kindof a moot point. Its owned by a game company who does not wish to appear unprofessional. It was created to support their games. That means certain limitations do apply as to what they will seem to support on their service.

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No problem, I understand as I have said before I am a programmer so I completely see thier side of the issue in fact I still have not completely decided on which side of the debate I am on. ( I am a fence sitter) I will discuss this no more on this forum.

On a side note I see you visit the sourceforge quite alot. I am (indirectly) involved in a few projects. In fact I am playing around with an idea starting a project using Python. I do not know this language well so I figured the best way to learn is trial by fire. (The way I have learned my other Languages) Have you ever used Python? What do you think of it?

[Gandalf Parker]

I wouldnt say Im a python programmer. I know enough to make changes in someone elses code. Ive done that with C, Perl, ADA, Scheme, tons of Languages but I wouldnt say Im a programmer. (cept in BASIC or shell scripts)

[Pirateiam]

Actually I love the debate and would be glad to debate it with you somewhere like one of my other homes (alt.hacker or comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic or comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg newsGroups?).

Actually I lurk on alt.hacker and other similar news Groups just to keep my eyes open. Currently with the big upsurge of concern over homeland security some of my customers (Water Treatment Plants) want to make sure thier systems are secure since some control systems are now web based so I can log on to troubleshoot problems etc... You guys on alt.hacker are kinda like anti-crackers and just people that thirst for knowledge not really a threat. By the way I love this quote can I use it -

Come here for knowledge, go there for answers. If you don't know the difference, go to AOL.

-- Gandalf Parker

Script Kiddies! LMAO

[Gandalf Parker]

Originally posted by Pirateiam:

quote:

---

Actually I love the debate and would be glad to debate it with you somewhere like one of my other homes (alt.hacker or comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic or comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg newsGroups?).

Actually I lurk on alt.hacker and other similar news Groups just to keep my eyes open. Currently with the big upsurge of concern over homeland security some of my customers (Water Treatment Plants) want to make sure thier systems are secure since some control systems are now web based so I can log on to troubleshoot problems etc... You guys on alt.hacker are kinda like anti-crackers and just people that thirst for knowledge not really a threat. {/qb]

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yeah its all white-hats. Almost all of them are system admins or security techs. A nice older crowd than people tend to expect (kindof like this gaming forum)

[qb]
By the way I love this quote can I use it -

Come here for knowledge, go there for answers. If you don't know the difference, go to AOL.

Sure. I think I altered it abit later. It read "If you dont know the difference then you can just go to AOL!" which gave more of the flavor.

[Mind Elemental]

*raises his hand*

I love EFS Hyperion (and hte Fading Suns RPG) to death.

However, it suffers from the same problem that MOM does: brain-dead AI. The EFS AI never launches planetary invasions or builds good units.

Fortunately, EFS has out-of-the-box multiplayer --and hot-seat.

EFS, MOM, Stars!, and Dominions 1/the 2 demo all hooked me the moment I started playing.

[E. Albright]

Originally posted by Lunaticus:
Does anyone have an url for the patches for EFS?

EFS Hyperion mod homepage

EFS Nova mod homepage