Ermor Themes

[shovah]

i like n9 white centaurs (+6 berserk and 3 regen i think)and miamasa could probably out skeleton spam him and of course false horror spam caelum would be fun

[Endoperez]

Fire 9 Vanir would deal out magical damage, and I think both their defense and magic resistance are above normal. Also, those Dwarves have Earth, and Blade Wind should be a killer against low-prot units, even if they are ethereal (it did deal magical damage, didn't it? It at least used to).

[quantum_mechani]

Jurri said:
Interesting strategies, QM! I'm not sure they are the best for the purpose, however.

I would think perhaps fire-blessed Vans or Sidhe or anything, really, could work, since they should be able to hurt the spirits and in the case of these two and some others also have a lot of survivability against centurions. Also, vans can sac slaves to spread dominion, right? That could be useful, too, if the game prolonged. Lightning bolts should work fine against centurions, as long as they aren't especially protected.

Shouldn't sauromancers be more effective skeleton spammers than spectators? Thusly, one would think fighting fire with fire would work. (Not that I know if spectators were used for that purpose ) Also, base C'tis has these serpent dancers that have magic weapons, and a high def and an above average MR; they should be formidable against the spirits. Especially with some bless and a skeleton spam to soak the hits.

Fire/Astral flagellants would conceivably work, as they should have enough MR to resist many attacks, as well as well enough offensive capacity to beat centurions.

Perhaps the best bet would be fire (+a bit of earth, maybe) blessed white centaurs; you get the supply and the blessing from the dryads, as well as cheap banishment. Also, temples are easy to make with Pan.

Or maybe I'm missing something? Certainly these would have a hard time, too, but I wouldn't necessarily focus solely on mages and priests under circumstances like this.

The difficulty with focusing on troops is supply. Natons like Pan can compensate with nature mages, but using them in the field will cripple your research, the one real advantage over the SG strategy. That was the other reason I played C'tis (DT), I got my own troops that would not starve.

And there is still the issue that your units (particularly with priests to bless them) cannot be everywhere at once. Sauromancers casting wither bones is about as cost effective as it gets to fighting undead raiding squads, band they were still spread to thin.

And yes, in many cases the sauros spam better, however SG doesn't really need to spam. Simply use packs of centurions, if they do get defeated by a large pack of spammers, simply regroup them and and try with a large force. Without relief the sauros will get overcome sooner or later, and getting relief going in the time frame you need would be quite difficult.

If I were to try again, I would probably do a carrion woods bless involving fire. Use black centaurs early, gradually switch to vine beasts. Not that great of chance of working, but maybe interesting.

In any case, I can't think of any other nation that requires as specific of strategies to have even a hope of defeating them 1vs.1.

[Turin]

Jurri said:

I would think perhaps fire-blessed Vans or Sidhe or anything, really, could work, since they should be able to hurt the spirits and in the case of these two and some others also have a lot of survivability against centurions. Also, vans can sac slaves to spread dominion, right? That could be useful, too, if the game prolonged. Lightning bolts should work fine against centurions, as long as they aren't especially protected.

The problem with those strategies (apart from the supply issue) is that your troops will likely get diseased in the first battle due to apparitions, so Pangeae seems to be the most effective choice for a bless troop strategy. However the centaurs are very expensive, so you need good scales, a lvl 9 bless and very high dominion.
So you will be likely to create only one army, whereas the ermor player will run rampant through your provinces. If you split your main army, they will most likely get overwhelmed by the paralizing spirits and lifedraining ghosts.

And the ermor player will equip his centurion prophet with a fire resist ring, which will provide another nasty problem.

[Jurri]

The disease cloud won't affect the units if they have their mirror images intact, right? At least other AoE effects won't, to my knowledge.

Your points may be correct... It's an interesting problem, really; I do share the view that it's a difficult proposition no matter the strategy, especially against such a skillfull foe as Turin. But, I do think that feature is shared by AE Ermor and CW Pan too.

[spirokeat]

well, thos centurions are certainly nice looking. I don't know anything about MP strats at all. It would seem to hinge on limiting the Ermor dominion though. Certainly when I use vampires with Mictlan my domain is paramount to effectively using them.

How about Marignon, Inquisitors, good fire magic ? The right blessing could cause some problems.

This is a really interesting thread btw.

Spiro.

[Alneyan]

Jurri: The Machakan kamikazes are the key to the problem. Remember those Sorcerers that just wouldn't die? That should work fine against the undead, too.

That aside, do you think Phoenix Pyre would help against the undeads? Witch Doctors can cast it, and those can be everywhere, and the spell deals some damage over a widespread area. Of course, fatigue will kill the mages sooner or later (Summon Earthpower may help here), but it might just work out. Of course, getting to that level of research is a problem... but then anything involving the undead is a problem.

Spirokeat: Dominion is mighty hard to undo, and the undead can easily afford maximum Dominion. If you can pull it out, everything will be easier though. Friendly Dominion isn't still enough for Immortals though: assassination spells will remove all their items and send them back home regardless, and commanders that keep on dying aren't that useful. I'm addicted to Mind Hunt now.

[quantum_mechani]

Jurri said:
The disease cloud won't affect the units if they have their mirror images intact, right? At least other AoE effects won't, to my knowledge.

Your points may be correct... It's an interesting problem, really; I do share the view that it's a difficult proposition no matter the strategy, especially against such a skillfull foe as Turin. But, I do think that feature is shared by AE Ermor and CW Pan too.

I have dueled with the other two dead themes, played by at least average players, and there is not the same degree of difficulty. Both lack stealth freespawns, and both lack immortal summons from turn one.

The have their strengths, AE troop horde is fearsome for the unprepared, CW can make mincemeat of thugs and SCs. But both have real trouble going up against enough priests.

[spirokeat]

Thats why I was thinking of a nation like Mari who has special stealthy priests to undo dominion. Especially if you can give them a stone idol or something. Though i'm not sure how the maths on that would stack up.

But I suppose keeping them slapped and itemless would go a long way too.

SPiro.

[Alneyan]

Inquisitors aren't stealthy, unless I am grossly mistaken. Stealth priests still have to "uncloak" to preach however, so you will need to spend one turn in the province, and pray the Nine that the hordes aren't going to attack you (that sounds unlikely, if they have seen your lovely Inquisitors).

I haven't been impressed with Stone Idols myself: they didn't seem to have much of an effect, with several needed to start having a real impact, and the difficulty of keeping that Dominion down: your Dominion has to go in that province and grows high for the province to remain converted. I have been fighting a Black Forest Ulm recently, and despite all my best efforts, I haven't really broken down their Dominion (still an healthy 9/10 in their core provinces), and we have been neighbours (with a lot of temples on both sides) for... what, sixty turns?

The Skeptics should be able to do that, however: 50 gold is a lot better than 20 gems (kind of expensive when fighting a mad opponent), and they will work right as soon as they enter the province. They bring their own problems, of course: one skeptic means one less commander that could be used to do something else. Down with the undead!