Guide: MA Oceania - OMG, I think I've done it

[Baalz]

Yeah, no doubt this is a challenging position to play which has a lot of handicaps which you're hoping to mitigate but will never get rid of. I do, however, think that it's quite possible to have even *more* strong support mages than most nations. That's because of the way you're methodically building an upkeep free nation. What that means is that you're gonna have *so* many more 350 gold powerful mages than other nations could remotely contemplate.

Using them in combat does present challenges, but I think it's absolutely wrong to feel that you can't use them in combat because of their MR. Some of the forms are going to be particularly hard to use in combat (really high hitpoints and low MR), but that's OK you need research mages to. You'll have *plenty* of mages with tiny hitpoints and plenty more with medium hitpoints who have no problem at all blending into the chaff you should be fielding with them. Summon animals, cast crossbreeding etc. and slap an amulet of MR on a mage who transformed into a black hawk and he'll have nothing to worry about. Against anything but concentrated astral opposition you won't have trouble using even the big animal mages by making extensive use of blood vines, ice drakes, etc. You've got plenty of options for good cheap decoys and enough mages that you can afford to use them all over the place.

[JimMorrison]

Well the problem in question, is of course the difficult transition into Blood. In the test I refer to, I only had 2 (land) provinces at the time, and due to struggling cash flow, had not gotten the research to really start grabbing a lot of summons (including, of course, Lamias). Also I tried casting Mother Oak, and 91 gems didn't overwrite the AI's casting.

[Baalz]

Oh, I wouldn't generally suggest trying to overcast mother oak. It makes a lot of sense if you have a pretty good chance of being the first one who can cast it (you're researching alt anyway and have a best in class nature gem income), but if you have to fight for it it's just not worth it generally because it takes too long to pay for itself...assuming it stays up.

[chrispedersen]

See, my take on MA-Oceania sort dovetails with yours Jim.
The whole question of transforming Capricorns is to avoid upkeep.
Generally, I believe the point of the castle strategy is to make mer mages.

Whats the point of taking an expensive research mage, blow 15 gems and transform him into an animal mage.

Why not just make more of the lower upkeep mages? Playing a +3 0 -3 -3 +0 + 0 scales, I generally can't afford to max out production of mages even from the beginning.

[Tifone]

Originally Posted by chrispedersen

Whats the point of taking an expensive research mage, blow 15 gems and transform him into an animal mage.

The chance of just losing him aside , Trasformation's just 3 gems in CBM

[JimMorrison]

Yeah it makes a lot of sense at 3N per casting, though the vast majority of the forms, I still feel are wholly unsuited to combat use.

Out of 25 mages (2 died the last turn to Mind Burns, can't remember what they were, but I think they can safely be classified as "MR too low to survive combat" -

3 Foulspawn = 8MR
2 Dragonflies = 3MR
12 various animals = 5MR
1 Winged Monkey (so cool!) = 7MR
1 Bog Beast = 7MR
2 Ice Drakes = 9MR
1 "Hydra Hatchling" (looks like a mature Hydra missing some heads, only 1 form) = 12MR
1 Wyvern = 12MR
1 Chimera = 13MR
1 Amphiptere = 16MR

So if I count the 2 that just died, I had 20% Feebleminded (the Foulspawn and Dragonflies, who are actually at 3MR and -2MR atm from Affliction), and 16% who have >10MR before items. Of those 4, none of them have anything but misc slots, so besides the kind of awesome Amphiptere, none will surpass an unbuffed Capricorn, even with an Antimagic Ammy. (on the bright side, 25 ex-Capricorns with 1 star, and in 1Magic dominion will net you 250RP for free, and cut upkeep by ~583g)

As far as Mermages as support mages..... they are almost identical to a Capricorn out of the water. Without going into length, I'll just say that I didn't think I was the only one that felt that it wasn't just that Capricorns were too expensive once removed from the water, but that their paths just sucked in combat by that point anyways. Not to say that some Mermages wouldn't come in handy, but there is little good they can do that won't have them passed out by round 5, and not much they can do before that.

So, trying to look for an angle that allows land to be conquered early on, and Conj to be researched early enough to not only get a good stable of summoned mages up very early, but to make them visible to your neighbors, so they understand the risks involved in trying to marginalize your holdings. All this is a very tough task to accomplish, when it's well known that you won't get better than N2 or W2 for combat magic without your pretender, or summons (or booster items, but Water is way out of early reach, and Nature seems a very poor use for your gems, considering your other goals).

[VedalkenBear]

Wow, you guys are making me want to play Rlyeh.

[chrispedersen]

Originally Posted by JimMorrison

Yeah it makes a lot of sense at 3N per casting, though the vast majority of the forms, I still feel are wholly unsuited to combat use.

Out of 25 mages (2 died the last turn to Mind Burns, can't remember what they were, but I think they can safely be classified as "MR too low to survive combat" -

3 Foulspawn = 8MR
2 Dragonflies = 3MR
12 various animals = 5MR
1 Winged Monkey (so cool!) = 7MR
1 Bog Beast = 7MR
2 Ice Drakes = 9MR
1 "Hydra Hatchling" (looks like a mature Hydra missing some heads, only 1 form) = 12MR
1 Wyvern = 12MR
1 Chimera = 13MR
1 Amphiptere = 16MR

So if I count the 2 that just died, I had 20% Feebleminded (the Foulspawn and Dragonflies, who are actually at 3MR and -2MR atm from Affliction), and 16% who have >10MR before items. Of those 4, none of them have anything but misc slots, so besides the kind of awesome Amphiptere, none will surpass an unbuffed Capricorn, even with an Antimagic Ammy. (on the bright side, 25 ex-Capricorns with 1 star, and in 1Magic dominion will net you 250RP for free, and cut upkeep by ~583g)

As far as Mermages as support mages..... they are almost identical to a Capricorn out of the water. Without going into length, I'll just say that I didn't think I was the only one that felt that it wasn't just that Capricorns were too expensive once removed from the water, but that their paths just sucked in combat by that point anyways. Not to say that some Mermages wouldn't come in handy, but there is little good they can do that won't have them passed out by round 5, and not much they can do before that.

So, trying to look for an angle that allows land to be conquered early on, and Conj to be researched early enough to not only get a good stable of summoned mages up very early, but to make them visible to your neighbors, so they understand the risks involved in trying to marginalize your holdings. All this is a very tough task to accomplish, when it's well known that you won't get better than N2 or W2 for combat magic without your pretender, or summons (or booster items, but Water is way out of early reach, and Nature seems a very poor use for your gems, considering your other goals).

Hmmm idea for a new spell.
If an immature hydra gets old enough, it changes to a mature hydra. Unfortunately, I don't know a way to do an "if" statement via spell....

[chrispedersen]

Hmm, another look at things:

Oceania's problem is essentially this:

Water's gem access is: Water/Earth (great access) Astral/Nature Good access, Poor access: Death, Fire, Air)

This becomes compounded by: Water Nature mages emphasis; no foot slots to boost earth; and a pretty fair combat weakness for water/nature magic.

[WraithLord]

I 2nd JimMorrison take on the transformation. The MR hit is a death sentence to your mages in and out of battle. There are so many ways to kill a commander that check MR...
I wouldn't do that unless under extreme circumstances.

IMHO the guide is solid but MA Oceania still remains a weak nation. I'm not sure that its better than taking the water and then spam clams.