Mod CBM 1.8 released - Page 6

rdonj · #51 February 8th, 2011, 07:09 PM

Cost of items is directly related to their path level. So you can't have SDRs at b2 and 15 slaves. If you want them to be 15 slaves, then they have to be b3 items. It's not possible to do otherwise. And I should probably point out that either way, it makes SDRs much more useful for the already strong blood nations than for everyone else... so why are we bothering to bring them back in again?

Also noobliss, you're seriously overreacting.

And Jarkko, if you are responsible for the banning of TheConway... I would get banned for saying what I think of you, and you're the one who'd deserve it.

Valerius · #52 February 8th, 2011, 07:23 PM

With the removal of SDRs making blood a less viable option for Vanheim, what about replacing the Vanjarl's B1 with the Vanadrott's 100% AEDB pick? Or if not a random pick then just something more useful than B1 currently is. This would be a boost to Vanheim but the glamour nations, particularly Van, did take several hits in 1.7 so it doesn't strike me as OP.

Edit: maybe a 50% pick would be better, 100% might be too much.

NooBliss · #53 February 9th, 2011, 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soyweiser

The same with hammers, and SDR's. They are so good, that there is no point in not using them. Games become very dull if each game is, rush construction. Forge Turtle Win.

I have yet to see a winner who turtled. Or an good player who turtles, for that matter. Or perhaps we have different definitions of turtling.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soyweiser

It creates the runaway leader problem. (Which strat games tend to have). As long as you lead in gems, gold, etc. You can create more gems/gold quicker just because you are in the lead. Removal of gemgens and hammers makes this less so. (Not so convinced about the SDR).

Gemgens, maybe. Hammers - no, they dont. Its not hard to make or trade for a pair of hammers and use them, and they only multiply the amount of gems you get from your land.

And the runaway leader problem is still there, in case you didnt notice. Whoever has more land gets more gems and gold, provided he also site-searches and had half-decent scales, of course. Is there anything wrong with it?

And you cannot always boost everything to the point of usefulness, some stuff is just overpowered. Or, something that is used always. If you use a hammer for all your forgings, you could just as well remove the hammer, and reduce all the forging costs.[/quote]

You can. Llama's diversity mod did it, in my opinion - now every path has some nasties to summon. Except death, of course - with tarts not GoReasonable anymore. Oh, I forgot to add - thats another reason I'll stick to 1.6 from now on.
If something is good and everyone uses it, it doesnt mean it has to be banned, for hell's sake. Asinjas, Shishi etc are also good and gonna be used - will QM ban them too? I think not. Perhaps because these summons are straightforward and dont require as much effort?
Same with hammer. Yes, you use it for all your forgings. But its not hard to do so, it just requires some effort.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soyweiser

Ps: I love how the removal of the SDR changes everything Dom3 is about. You are overreacting a bit. Dom is still choose a nation, and win. But blood is not something every nation can do just as easy. Just as not every nation has Jaguars or high astral, or heavily armored shock troops who shoot explosive ammo, have a fanatical devotion to a dead superhuman on a toilet, and cybernetic implants.

Not every nation has Jaguars - thats right.
Not every nation has high Astral - true, but you need at least one high astral caster in the endgame.
Blood is not something every nation can do easily - that was always so, but why make it even harder while leaving major blood nations relatively untouched? Oh, some additional gold expenses. The horror.
Its easy to dismiss something just by saying 'you are overreacting'.

Jarkko · #54 February 9th, 2011, 01:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rdonj

And Jarkko, if you are responsible for the banning of TheConway... I would get banned for saying what I think of you, and you're the one who'd deserve it.

I have no power to ban anybody on this forum.

Perhaps he was banned for breaking the rules? Point 10 spesifically.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/misc.php?do=cfrules

PriestyMan · #55 February 9th, 2011, 01:47 AM

Quote:

The same with hammers, and SDR's. They are so good, that there is no point in not using them. Games become very dull if each game is, rush construction. Forge Turtle Win.

I have yet to see a winner who turtled. Or an good player who turtles, for that matter. Or perhaps we have different definitions of turtling.

its funny that you say that. try playing with more vets. qm or juffos are both very very good players who are guilty of being turtles. (although qm is by far the more notorios one) trust me, turtling, especially with gemgens was the way to go.

Quote:

Its easy to dismiss something just by saying 'you are overreacting'.

yeah. cause you are

Dimaz · #56 February 9th, 2011, 02:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soyweiser

Some stuff is so good that you cannot win unless you also use it. The gengems for example. Most give a constant boost to gems after only 15 turns. Create enough of them, and you could not lose, so the endgame became, who can create the most gemgens the quickest.

(With some variation of skill, but it is hard to beat an opponent who gets 100 more gems than you get each turn).

The real problem is when several players have hundreds of gemgens at the end so the game just stucks without a clear winner or Armageddon fest starts. What you describe is the viable way to win in the game with gemgens. I have to remind that this game has been played WITH gemgens for most of it's existence and still was fun to play. However I agree that removing them in the form they used to be was for the good.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soyweiser

The same with hammers, and SDR's. They are so good, that there is no point in not using them. Games become very dull if each game is, rush construction. Forge Turtle Win.

Really? I followed this recipe once and lost, how can it be? It has something to do with gemgen removal probably.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soyweiser

It creates the runaway leader problem. (Which strat games tend to have). As long as you lead in gems, gold, etc. You can create more gems/gold quicker just because you are in the lead. Removal of gemgens and hammers makes this less so. (Not so convinced about the SDR).

So if you lead in gems gold etc you should be able to create less of them or what? I'm intrigued.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soyweiser

Jade knives where just broken.

. A blood sac spam with jade knives isn't counterable.

Blood is powerful, and blood sac is powerful, but please show me a game won by blood sac alone or as the main part of the winner's strategy.
Sorry I don't have time to comment the rest now..

PriestyMan · #57 February 9th, 2011, 02:40 AM

there are at least a couple games won with blood sac being the main strategy, which was where many people learned how broken it is with jade knives. see the Inversions game on Dom3Mods for example.

Executor · #58 February 9th, 2011, 02:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dimaz

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soyweiser

Jade knives where just broken.

. A blood sac spam with jade knives isn't counterable.

Blood is powerful, and blood sac is powerful, but please show me a game won by blood sac alone or as the main part of the winner's strategy.
Sorry I don't have time to comment the rest now..

I tend to have a very similar opinion to yours generally Dimaz, but, I do think you might be underestimating blood sacrifice.

Personally I love how the jade knives operate and wouldn't have excluded them, but on smaller maps for 10 or under players they could have been just brutal, and once a dom rush starts it's nearly impossible to stop it. I myself have been in two games that were won by a dom rush, one with Mictlan by myself, and the other by Archaeolept by Hinnom, and both victories took only half a dozen turns.

Still I have no problem with such victories as I consider it a very legit way to win and not a very often one, and I personally consider it to be the most respected way to win, as this *is a game of dominions.

WraithLord · #59 February 9th, 2011, 03:03 AM

I'd just like to make one comment. Most of the Vets I know (with exception of QM

) are absolutely not turtlers, they are aggressive as hell and will jump at any opportunity or sign of weakness to crush and subjugate other nations.

Tarts are overnerfed and now death nations are stuck with way overpriced, afflicted & shattered souled (meaning 25% offline) equivalent of EDM SCs (Ember lord etc).

NooBliss · #60 February 9th, 2011, 03:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PriestyMan

Its funny that you say that. try playing with more vets. qm or juffos are both very very good players who are guilty of being turtles. (although qm is by far the more notorios one) trust me, turtling, especially with gemgens was the way to go.

I have played with vets, thank you very much. So far, they expand fast and conquer their neighbours as soon as they can.

Does QM even play anything other than blitzes? Turtling on a small map once you've conquered a good parcel of land - maybe that's a sound tactics, for a while. Turtling on a huge map while others keep expanding? Thats suicide.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PriestyMan

yeah. cause you are

Yeah. Cause you say so.