SC's vs Thugs

[Endoperez]

Artifact WOULD help - but it could also be used elsewhere for even greater effects.

Remember, the truly great SC builds aren't about achieving the most power, but being very effective for their cost. Gift-of-Reasoning, Empowering and giving artifacts to a single Abomination makes him very powerful, but you could have dozen very powerful thugs, or 5-6 SCs, with the same price.

EVERY thing can die. Because of that, NOTHING is good enough to use all those resources on. Except in SP, and just for fun...

I remember someone playing Ulm, and the stories of the heroic Cave Drake leading his assault squad on a flying carpet. I'd like to do something as cool as that!

[Vicious Love]

Endoperez said:
Artifact WOULD help - but it could also be used elsewhere for even greater effects.

What abominations lack in SC potential, they make up for in survivability. Consequently, they tend to make better, more cost-effective* platforms for, say, the Soulstone of the Wolves. And I still think they're a decent choice for Kurgi's Gift, what with having no spell levels to lose, and being ultimately expendable.


*25+20(GoR)}+5(Amulet of Antimagic) gems vs a Tartarian's 10-30+equipment+means of healing afflictions). Bearing in mind the Achilles' Heel that is undeath, to say nothing of superior HP and built in lifedrain/regenration combo, I find abominations well worth the slightly higher base cost.

[Alneyan]

Vicious Love said:
One level of earth gives both basic reinvig and an MR boost, if you're willing to spend 1-2 rounds buffing. Does Iron Will stack with Magic Resistance/Amulets of Antimagic?

From memory (I so wish I could play Dominions from school), MR item bonuses stack with MR spell bonuses, since they aren't the same thing, but MR spell effects *are* the same thing as far the game is concerned. So, Iron Will should stack with the Amulet, but Iron Will does not stack with Antimagic, the MR part of Army of Lead, or the Astral battlefield spell giving increased MR to everyone around.

[archaeolept]

an abomination commander w/ the gift of kurgi would last as long as bumping into the first astral mage. survivable, maybe - still yours, maybe not.

[shovah]

i thought even when feebleminded abombs had good mr?

[archaeolept]

"good" is a bit relative - the AI will preferentially target them (cause they have tons of hp); so, while my statement was a bit exagerated ;p - a group of astral mages w/ some chaff would almost certainly prevail, since the mages will spam enslave and the like on it.

[Vicious Love]

archaeolept said:
"good" is a bit relative - the AI will preferentially target them (cause they have tons of hp); so, while my statement was a bit exagerated ;p - a group of astral mages w/ some chaff would almost certainly prevail, since the mages will spam enslave and the like on it.

MR 19 isn't that bad, and almost every true SC or higher-end thug has to deal with Enslave Mind and Soul Slay spamming. Particularly the ones that attack alone, or at the head of small squads of flying/teleporting thugs. I figure the point of a flying abomination is being able to use it wherever you see fit, instead of just indiscriminately sending it at any astral mage stacks that come your way.

Besides, think of the alternatives. Abominations have the highest base MR in the game*, waste no spell levels by being gifted, and can take down any horrors that come their way with relative ease. How much equipment would you have to give any other summon for them to survive Kurgi's Gift? How much more would it sting if you lost all that equipment to a lucky Soul Slay or Enslave Mind?

*I believe they tie with doom horrors and vastnesses. I may be wrong. At any rate, both are overpriced. With the possible exeption of an Astral-9 blessed Vastness. Expensive, but one hell of a giftbearer.

Edit: Also, if we're talking about army vs army combat, the least you could do is throw in a casting of Army of Lead or Resist Magic.

[Graeme Dice]

Vicious Love said:
MR 19 isn't that bad, and almost every true SC or higher-end thug has to deal with Enslave Mind and Soul Slay spamming.

MR 19 means that you'll fail somewhere in the neighbourhood of 1-5% of the time.

[RonD]

Graeme Dice said:

MR 19 means that you'll fail somewhere in the neighbourhood of 1-5% of the time.

That's the theory. It assumes a minimum-level caster, base dominion, etc. Practice is somewhat different. My experience is that any one (or even two) things with 19 MR facing a squad of 5 or more Atlantis or Pythium astral mages will fall to soul slay, and probably sooner in the battle rather than later (and will probably be paralyzed to boot).

[Vicious Love]

RonD said:

That's the theory. It assumes a minimum-level caster, base dominion, etc. Practice is somewhat different. My experience is that any one (or even two) things with 19 MR facing a squad of 5 or more Atlantis or Pythium astral mages will fall to soul slay, and probably sooner in the battle rather than later (and will probably be paralyzed to boot).

That seems to square with the theory. Assuming the above five mages aren't quickened, and have a 5% chance per casting of making it past MR, the abomination still has only ~60% odds of surviving the second round of combat, and ~46% of surviving the third.
I still consider this perfectly acceptable, since this sort of thug simply isn't meant to go up against astral mages, particularly without a friendly mage to boost its MR further.

Once again, I'd like to point out there are few alternative combat platforms for Kurgi's Gift which aren't simultaneously more expensive, more vulnerable to both magic and conventional weapons, and much more painful to lose.