Semi-OT: We will go to Stars.

[Paul1980au]

Ok i dont think human technology is at the point yet of even considering FTL based spaceships - who knows what the future holds. Human technology is come a long way - and another 20 years will almost surley see a mars mission and possibly permanent moon and mars settlement within 50 years.

[Suicide Junkie]

Originally posted by geoschmo:
For one thing all that complicated manufacturing technology just means more things to break down.

Well, the point is that the population of the colony can fix things on their own.

If your manufacturing plant breaks down, you break out the wrenches and hammers and dig into your pile of spare parts. Then you make replacements for the spare parts and everything is ok again.

[Raging Deadstar]

I have no idea on physics, FTL sounds interesting, and maybe it is real, maybe it isn't. In my opinion physics isn't the issue when it comes to colonising distant planets, or even this solar system.

It's Human Nature.

I'm certainly supportive of exploration, and one day this planet we live on will be destroyed, one way or another and if the human race is still on it then we will all die. But until we sort out the problems here on Earth why should we bother colonising distant solar systems? Or even our own?

It's happened throughout history right through to today. Wars between nations, nations wanting independance, oppression of people on huge scales. We start to colonise planets it just goes up to a whole new scale. Colonies will want independance, or get angry at others, or even earth and War will break out (Don't just think spaceships, probes loaded with nuclear warheads launched at each other. Invasion by troops? we humans will come up with a way to kill each other, no matter how far the difference).

A dictator rises to power and starts a mass genocide of an ethnic minority. (*cough*anyone seeing parralells here*cough*) How dificult would it be to stop that? Even on Mars it would take years, probably months if we advanced pretty far, just to get organised and get there. And thats just assuming Colonies would be one single nation, multiple nations on each colony? It's like we're playing Oliver Twist and asking for more, and what we want is Trouble

We should stay on this lump of rock we call earth until we can actually get along and be tolerent of each others beliefs/customs/attitudes and opinions, Nature evolves and hopefully so will we. Survival says we should expand, but maybe if we can't solve these problems we just aren't ready for it.

Sorry to take the topic off on a "Ethics/Human Nature" slant but this is my opinion.

And before anyone points out anything about Human Nature i would like to point out myself that if we were at the stage we were five/two or even one thousands years ago i know I would be dead already. Survival of fittest i guess

EDIT: And you all thought Geoschmo was a pessimist

[ July 22, 2004, 18:16: Message edited by: Raging Deadstar ]

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by Suicide Junkie:
If your manufacturing plant breaks down, you break out the wrenches and hammers and dig into your pile of spare parts. Then you make replacements for the spare parts and everything is ok again.

If you were talking about a trip to Jupiter, or even Pluto I can agree. But there is a point of diminishing returns here somewhere where you simply can't take enough stuff to cover all the likely things that will need repairing and replacing. And a finite length of time that these machines we build will be repairable. Your spare parts won't Last indefinetly, even just sitting on the shelf. Lot's of complex things with many moving parts required. And we aren't talking just years here, but centuries. Not just the moving parts either. Computers and other electronics will constantly need replacing.

Unless we come up with some sort of replicator technology like Star Trek maybe. Or I suppose if we had nano-bots scurrying over the entire ship basically rebuilding it from the atom up as we go the ship could Last indefinetly.

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by Suicide Junkie:
You sound pretty pessimistic, Geo...

Given all the people in the world, I'm sure there are enough that are willing to spend the rest of their life on the ship, especially if its big enough to be somewhat comfortable.

I don't see it as pessimism as much as realism. Personally I think I'm optimistic as I still hold out some chance that the underlying assumption is wrong and we will discover a faster method of travel.

Your idea about hollowing out asteroids is interesting, and I'm sure it will be done at some point for inter system ships and habitats. But I don't see how it makes it any more practical for deep space travel. For one thing all that complicated manufacturing technology just means more things to break down.

[primitive]

Originally posted by Suicide Junkie:
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At the very least, you could fill it with a load of criminals, as an alternative to death row or life in prison...

Carefull, you might end up with a whole solar system filled up with Aussies. Scaaaary

[dogscoff]

Lot's of complex things with many moving parts required. And we aren't talking just years here, but centuries. Not just the moving parts either. Computers and other electronics will constantly need replacing.

Nah, it could be done. Just because your average modern family car is carefully designed to fall apart 2 days after the warranty runs out doesnn't mean we are incapable of building things that Last longer.

I remember seeing a program about the railways in India- they had this enormous steam engine running. It had been in service for over a hundred years...

Now obviously a spaceship is more complicated than a steam engine, but with proper, solid, simple-as-possible design and manufacture, a healthy supply of spares and engineering talent I'm sure we could (eventually) build a spaceship capable of a century's travel.