Mod: Kaleva, Songs of Sorcery - 0.87 released

[Humakty]

[QUOTE\] I don't agree with your logic for two reasons. First, most types of modern combat sports have weight classes, so that smaller guys won't lose to as good but bigger guys. Second, combat is the last thing I'd wish for anyone when knowledge of medicine was as poor as it was, and color-coded shields certainly wouldn't appear in the kinds of raids ancient Finns would have partaken.[/quote]

Weight class do mostly exist for bare-handed combat sports, there are no such things in swordsmanship. The classical figure of the six feet tall barbarian dominating the battlefield is romantic and unrealistic. Do you know swords also hurt big people ? No need to have big muscles to kill someone. And I didn't wished you to get hurt in melee, was just raising a few facts. (IE : you could have been pressed into service, like many youngsters at that time...)

[Lingchih]

I think I agree that Väinämöinen should be a pretender, not just a hero. Though you might also include some similar being as a hero.

And thanks for continuing to work on this. I dearly hope to see it in it's final form.

[HoneyBadger]

It's great that you've got this up and running, Endoperez! I'm very eager to try it out, whenever that might happen.

In the meantime, could you please (if possible) put up the sprites/graphics in this thread so that I can get a look at them?

[Endoperez]

Originally Posted by HoneyBadger

It's great that you've got this up and running, Endoperez! I'm very eager to try it out, whenever that might happen.

In the meantime, could you please (if possible) put up the sprites/graphics in this thread so that I can get a look at them?

This should happen in two-three weeks. That's how long I have to work on this, and it's kind-of schoolwork.

I haven't started working on the sprites yet, besides planning stages. I made notes of what I should do. Here are some of the more difficult things that I might not be able to portray properly:

I might recolor horses slightly, and/or give Spellsingers reddish fire-horses. I'll try to model spellsingers after Joukahainen's description (a sky-blue shirt, light armor and helmet, golden sword, fiery horse, etc).

I'll try to make Väinämöinen look more iconic, hopefully like something from a Gallen-Kallela painting. This one will be hard.

I can post some of the reworked descriptions tomorrow when I get back to them. Väinämöinen got a much-needed description update already.

[Burnsaber]

I'm very,very intrested in this project, but my other projects have eaten up my SP time, so I haven't had a chance to play yet.

Originally Posted by Endoperez

I'll try to make Väinämöinen look more iconic, hopefully like something from a Gallen-Kallela painting. This one will be hard.

May I be as bold as to suggest using the same pose as the guy in my avatar? Just replace the staff with a sword and the stone tablet with the bony kantele. Then it's just about adding chainmail, pants, recoloring and beard.

The new spellslinger sounds like a toughie. Recoloring a horse is easy, but the color scheme has all the makings of a catasrophe. Skyblue with flaming red and gold? IMHO, not very aesthetic color combination. Perhaps if you used very dark blue..

If you feel overwhelmed, I could help you out with some sprite work (if you're okay with that). I'm feeling kinda down because I've finished all the art in Holy War and it's all just about boring code-writing now.

[rdonj]

Originally Posted by Burnsaber

I'm very,very intrested in this project, but my other projects have eaten up my SP time, so I haven't had a chance to play yet.

May I be as bold as to suggest using the same pose as the guy in my avatar? Just replace the staff with a sword and the stone tablet with the bony kantele. Then it's just about adding chainmail, pants, recoloring and beard.

The new spellslinger sounds like a toughie. Recoloring a horse is easy, but the color scheme has all the makings of a catasrophe. Skyblue with flaming red and gold? IMHO, not very aesthetic color combination. Perhaps if you used very dark blue..

If you feel overwhelmed, I could help you out with some sprite work (if you're okay with that). I'm feeling kinda down because I've finished all the art in Holy War and it's all just about boring code-writing now.

If you need a project to work on, I know someone who could use a ram sprite

[Endoperez]

I might make Väinämöinen a pretender instead of a hero, after all. He makes a fine hero, but his final words before he leaves (after a child born from virgin 'Mariatta' is crowned 'the king of Northland') are just too appopriate:

"When the North will learn my teachings,
Will recall my wisdom-sayings,
Hungry for the true religion.
Then will Suomi need my coming,
Watch for me at dawn of morning,
That I may bring back the Sampo,
Peace and plenty to the Northland."

I really, really like the hero he currently is, but even his description already fits right in:

"Väinämöinen is the wisest of all the wisdom-singers. His voice holds such power that he is sometimes mistaken for a god. When he sings and wants it so, bears and wolves and birds and people stop their daily struggles and gather around him, enchanted. When he sings and wants it so, mountains tremble and waters tumble and his enemies fall before him. He knows the words that turn metal weapons aside and others that make boats build themselves." He disappeared for generations, but has now returned to take the role of a Pretender God?

[Aezeal]

Weight class do mostly exist for bare-handed combat sports, there are no such things in swordsmanship. The classical figure of the six feet tall barbarian dominating the battlefield is romantic and unrealistic. Do you know swords also hurt big people ? No need to have big muscles to kill someone. And I didn't wished you to get hurt in melee, was just raising a few facts. (IE : you could have been pressed into service, like many youngsters at that time...)

I'm pretty convinced that speed (for which you need muscles if it's a heavy sword you are wielding), the power behind your strikes (penetration) and range (6 feet tall) are all considerable advantages in melee with most weapons.

Even in fencing with foils these things are true and that would be one of the weapons where the impact would be the least.

[Humakty]

When I'm speaking of a melee, remember it's a group of people squeezed together, fighting with no rules, in which you can't make full use of your strength and height. In such a situation, the use of a short weapon (and small size) is rather an advantage, as it is more efficient to strike upward to trump the defenses of your adversary (who can't dodge really, he can only block). If you adapt the weapon you use, you shouldn't have a problem lifting it. The big and strong only have a real advantage till their group keeps it's cohesion, as it's the only moment allowing them to make use of their strength and reach (when their flanks are protected). So I maintain Conan kind of fighters are totally unrealistic, apart in an ultimate fighting arena. And two handed swords are rubbish weapons. As most two handed weapons.(if your goal is to survive the melee)

As for fencing, remember most olympic champions are rather small, we've got some specially small specimens in France who got gold medals, so I think this point explains itself quite well, for anyone who has watched a fencing competition at least once in it's life. Sometimes tall people do fare well, but it is rather exceptionnal.

[Burnsaber]

Err.. Derailing much?

If you want to discuss this further, could I suggest making a own thread for it?